boutique cigar talk

This is a lenghlty one guys so hang in there but i think it should be a good discussion! I was listening to the cigar authority today at work and listing to the August 1st pod cast to get ready for the barn smoker event this weeked in Connecticut and in the second hour boutique cigars came up. I love how they refer to us forum and facebook cigar guys cigar geeks because its so true but the ddiscussion was is the boutique cigar boom over?? what do we as a group think? What do we consider a boutique cigar/boutique brand and why do we consider them boutique? Is the end of boutique cigars here? the example was m80 selling out in under 24 hours but only being a limited release. what would happen if m80 had a release of 6,000 boxes and was in shops?? Would it have sold out or still be sitting on shelfs?? Weigh in cigar geeks i mean bums!!

What really make a cigar company boutique? Is it sales, the amount lines you have, whether or not your tied into a major company like general? I think that has to be determined before you can figure out if the boom is ending.

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Originally Posted by TreySC

What really make a cigar company boutique? Is it sales, the amount lines you have, whether or not your tied into a major company like general? I think that has to be determined before you can figure out if the boom is ending.

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its a bunch of questions just to make us all think and give our oppions. the end of boutique cigars was what was discussed on the cigar authority and think they its the end. i just put this all together because we say boutique but what is it really mean to everyone?

Good questions. I'm thinking anything owned by Swisher can't really be called "boutique", meaning DE no longer qualifies. Then there's the reverse phenomenon - the big companies "inventing" boutique brands, like Foundry which is a General off-shoot. Then you have boutique Caldwell rebranding and selling old non-boutique brands like Camacho.

I don't think the boutique craze is over. In fact I think it is in full effect. Just looking at the releases coming out from the small guys and how hot they are on the market. I for 1 don't seek out boutique blends but I will try them. A few are really great in my opinion. Some of my favorite smokes right now are the stuff you have to search to find in the B&M's. But, maybe I don't have a real good grasp on the definition of boutique.

Reno

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Originally Posted by Demuths1770

its a bunch of questions just to make us all think and give our oppions. the end of boutique cigars was what was discussed on the cigar authority and think they its the end. i just put this all together because we say boutique but what is it really mean to everyone?

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I've often wonder that myself and was partly why I asked. I guess to me boutique would be the smaller co. that only has a few lines and maybe does some LE's here and there. Like just of the top of my head Warped, Crowned Heads, Fratello, Crux, I know there's a bunch more out there those were the 1st few that popped in my head.

Do sales come into play just judging from what I see between here, instagram , and facebook Crowned Heads sells a bunch of cigars. Just thinking out loud since it kind of seems like that was the intention of the post.

Great discussion topic, Kyle. Boutique (in general) is typically defined as small or servicing a very specific clientele. Part of what clouds the subject is that its a buzzword now, like small batch or artisan crafted, that companies just throw on the description to make the sheep go "OHHH!!!!". I would say a Boutique cigar company should be based on production numbers. What the cutoff would be for qualifying as boutique I have no idea. So it is hard for me to say if the boutique boom is over. Maybe slowing but not yet declining. Pull up Smallbatchcigar.com and see how many more companies they have listed on the left than they did a year ago or two years ago. Most of those companies are adding lines or extending them. I wonder how much looming FDA changes might be affecting the entry of more true boutique brands.

As for the m80. If they had a greater production run, if they were able to not change the blending, I bet they would sell out at times. Just not nearly as fast as they do now. For example, look at Illusione Rothchildes. Fantastic regular production cigars, it can be hard to find boxes at certain times of the year. You can find them here and there, but if you search for them now, most of the major retailers don't have them in stock. Bottom line, IMO, excellent cigars will be snatched up by wise smokers no matter how many you produce.

Just my :twocents:

to put a twist on it can we say companies like Drew Estate and Tatuaje have "boutique" lines like the Unicos, Monsters, M80s, and so on. Yes they are hard to find cigars but can be avertised as "boutique" for example the M80 was made just for 2 guys. its such a lose thrown word now a days. i dont think its over any time soon. yes the top selling brands are the big name brands that are mentioned like Padron, Fuente, Davidoff, Romeo y Julieta, Perdomo, Rocky Patel and La Flor Dominicana but we as a cigar geek group our a small percentage of the cigar smoking community where the brands listed get all the more main line every day smoker.

I think that boutique may be the same as that elusive "Underground" label, or "Indy", before either goes "Pop". That is why it would be hard to quantify, even if we all know in our minds what should qualify, in which case we can generally agree, until it comes to splitting hairs and asking if a small but popular brand such as crowned heads is really boutique at this point...

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk

As has been mentioned it really comes down to production numbers. Any cigar that's manufactured in very limited quantities could qualify for "boutique" status regardless of how big the manufacturer is.

I think the word has been overused to the point it's become nonsense.
Everything is 'boutique' these days.
It's like 'fat free': "Hey, did you know these candies (which are made of 100% sugar) are FAT FREE?"
Or 'technology': It's no longer a convenient handle on your new garbage can, it's 'the latest in ergonomic technology'

I hate marketing

Interesting, the definition of "boutique":

Boutique | Define Boutique at Dictionary.com

I agree that nowadays we throw this term around too lightly. It's like the term "collectible". Most things marketed as collectible over the past few years, being mass-produce, are essentially worthless. Look at the Avon bottles, Beanie Babies, and such.

I actually think boutique is still alive and well because of one thing...access. One of the cool things that all boutique manufacturers know and realize is that in order to create buzz, you need to get your face out there and talk with not only the shops, but also the consumers. Over the past year, I've had lots of opportunities to ask questions and discuss lots of cigar geek stuff with heads of the boutique brand. I may not have met them face to face, but I've had my questions answered and had interactions where I feel more buy in to their brand because I feel like they are willing to share so I can learn from the information they already know.

The only "big" company that still allows access is Jonathan Drew. He's always got his face out there and I think that's why people still smoke his stuff. But in general, how many people have talked with the CEO or the blender of the bigger companies?

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Originally Posted by cocker_dude

The only "big" company that still allows access is Jonathan Drew. He's always got his face out there and I think that's why people still smoke his stuff. But in general, how many people have talked with the CEO or the blender of the bigger companies?

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This right here is so very true!! Drew Estate really knows how to put on a event wether big or small. I think with everything new thats coming out boutique cigars and companys can not be coming to an end. I think the biggest issue with boutique cigars is that they are so small that they dont end up in many shops and only us cigar geeks know about them but on the flip side when it is great us cigar geeks buy it up. look at las calaveras this year. they went so quick and mostly in part because we talked about them after last year that even non cigar geeks got in on it

They need to do what they did with beer and break companies into classes by production volume. Then there would actually be a definition set by the industry for what makes a cigar company boutique or not. Until then its a loosely used marketing term everyone is trying to cash in on. I don't think the trend is over personally. Then again I also think its possible everyones pushing all these new lines now so they're grandfathered in if the FDA passes their agenda on the industry.

I think it is hardly over, unless the FDA gets their hands in things; then the boutique cigar may be over. I think the Boutique cigar phase parallels the craft beer boom over the last 10-15 years. Could you imagine what would have happened to the craft beers if they had to submit an application for each new beer?!

Although the term "boutique" is being tossed around pretty loosely these days. This in itself is a testament to the popularity as companies attempt to capitalize on the trend. Same with beer, as the giant companies try to disguise some beers as "Craft".

I think one of the appeals of boutique cigars is that they are not readily available or seen everywhere, at least at major retailers or B&Ms. Although, I am fortunate enough that a few of my local B&Ms do a pretty good job of carrying these lesser known lines. To know you are smoking something somewhat unusual creates some interest; at least to us Cigar Geeks.

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Originally Posted by HIM

They need to do what they did with beer and break companies into classes by production volume. Then there would actually be a definition set by the industry for what makes a cigar company boutique or not. Until then its a loosely used marketing term everyone is trying to cash in on. I don't think the trend is over personally. Then again I also think its possible everyones pushing all these new lines now so they're grandfathered in if the FDA passes their agenda on the industry.

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This was my thinking when I first read the OP's post. Its all about the numbers when it comes to the term. It has to be. Just like the beer industry. Is it "craft" "Micro" "Macro" the numbers tell us what to call it. Not the brand or the parent company. I like the term myself. I like the idea of it as a whole. But the cigar industry has a LONG way to go to be able to "Label" something and have the consumer have ANY IDEA what they are getting. The beer industry has it NAILED with the BJCP guidelines. IMHO..

Cheers
Jay

Totally agree especially the last part. I've put a lot of thought into how a BJCP type format could be made for cigars and there's some key snags with the idea. The hardest being the first thing you'd have to do.... Come up with distinct definable cigar styles, and guidelines, most all cigars can be sorted into. If you can find a consistent and detailed way to accomplish that the rest falls into place.

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Originally Posted by HIM

Totally agree especially the last part. I've put a lot of thought into how a BJCP type format could be made for cigars and there's some key snags with the idea. The hardest being the first thing you'd have to do.... Come up with distinct definable cigar styles, and guidelines, most all cigars can be sorted into. If you can find a consistent and detailed way to accomplish that the rest falls into place.

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i have to agree this would be the best way. so if us cigar geeks are going off number of the lines and not the company as a whole i dont think boutique cigars are ending any time soon infact i think in the past year it has picked up and is still going strong

The labeling of cigars as Boutique by some online companies is a problem only until you understand that each and every line they are pushing is
either Premium, Super Premium, Ultra Premium, Limited Edition ,Small Batch or Boutique. And far too often some combination of several or ALL these terms.
Nevertheless the seller is able, but only for a very limited time, so you absolutely must act ($pend) right now, else these cigars will be gone forever.
But if you act super fast you may be able to get these Unique Small Batch Ultra Premium Limited Edition Boutique Masterpieces for $17.99 *with free shipping* for a box of 25 6x66 Perfectos.

How can anyone pass something like that up?

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Originally Posted by allusred

The labeling of cigars as Boutique by some online companies is a problem only until you understand that each and every line they are pushing is
either Premium, Super Premium, Ultra Premium, Limited Edition ,Small Batch or Boutique. And far too often some combination of several or ALL these terms.
Nevertheless the seller is able, but only for a very limited time, so you absolutely must act ($pend) right now, else these cigars will be gone forever.
But if you act super fast you may be able to get these Unique Small Batch Ultra Premium Limited Edition Boutique Masterpieces for $17.99 *with free shipping* for a box of 25 6x66 Perfectos.

How can anyone pass something like that up?

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thats a marketing plan that companies use selling to the general public. any cigar geek is not going to fall for that.

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Originally Posted by Demuths1770

the end of boutique cigars was what was discussed on the cigar authority and think they its the end.

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Yeah, well, they also thought all Cuban blending had ended, so...

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Originally Posted by StogieNinja

Yeah, well, they also thought all Cuban blending had ended, so...

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yeah it was just a topic to get people talking and thinking about that part of the market... i no where said i agree with them or they said it so they are right. it was simply to get people active and talking

I don't think it's the end of boutique cigars, I think it's coming close to where "boutique" is becoming a cliché in the cigar industry.

Boutique to me means total production - not production in a line, or limited edition. It's a small company that only puts out a small amount of cigars overall compared to the "big guys."

If I started rolling my own cigars, and only made 1,000 per year, they would be boutique cigars. If those were wildly popular and the identical blend, approved by me, was manufactured by General Cigar as Stonecutter2 Coronas, limited edition of only 150,000 - they are no longer boutique, they are produced en masse compared to small time production as they once were.

Everyone espouses the boutique buzzword right now, but they've diluted its meaning. It's not the end of boutique cigars, it's likely nearing the end of calling so many things boutique cigars. There will always be small time manufacturers putting out awesome stogies on a limited availability basis...but they'll get called something new to differentiate themselves.

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Originally Posted by stonecutter2

I don't think it's the end of boutique cigars, I think it's coming close to where "boutique" is becoming a cliché in the cigar industry.

Boutique to me means total production - not production in a line, or limited edition. It's a small company that only puts out a small amount of cigars overall compared to the "big guys."

If I started rolling my own cigars, and only made 1,000 per year, they would be boutique cigars. If those were wildly popular and the identical blend, approved by me, was manufactured by General Cigar as Stonecutter2 Coronas, limited edition of only 150,000 - they are no longer boutique, they are produced en masse compared to small time production as they once were.

Everyone espouses the boutique buzzword right now, but they've diluted its meaning. It's not the end of boutique cigars, it's likely nearing the end of calling so many things boutique cigars. There will always be small time manufacturers putting out awesome stogies on a limited availability basis...but they'll get called something new to differentiate themselves.

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Agreed.

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Originally Posted by StogieNinja

Agreed.

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I humbly propose that henceforth any true "boutique cigar" should be referred to simply as "a stonecutter."

:cowstogie:

:humble:

so to go a small step futher can a large company produce a boutique cigar? same question asked can a large beer company like miller coors make a craft beer? break down tatuaje and look how popular the main lines are but than the monsters, m80s, drinking age, and so on are such a smaller lines but still produced by a larger company

My 2 cents

In my opinion, a boutique cigar company is a smaller company with low production and limited lines. Of course there will be limited availability because of the low production.

Big company, small release with limited availability is just that.... a limited release, a store exclusive, etc... Not a boutique.

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Originally Posted by Demuths1770

the monsters, m80s, drinking age, and so on are such a smaller lines but still produced by a larger company

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Those are just limited releases.

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Originally Posted by Demuths1770

...same question asked can a large beer company like miller coors make a craft beer?

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Yes, they can produce a 'craft beer' but they cannot produce micro brew beer. I don't care what they say, they're simply not a micro brewery and any attempt to pass themselves or a particular line off as such is pure hogwash.

Same with cigars IMO. To me, 'boutique' means 'little mom and pop cigar rolling operation'. Limited releases by tobacco giants are not boutique cigars. Neither are formerly small operations bought out by said tobacco giants. Goose Island brewing company was bought out by Anheuser Busch. To me, that's the end of their 'micro brewery' status.

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Originally Posted by jp1979

Those are just limited releases.

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but some definitions of boutique is a line thats made for just a single store, m80. its almost like limited releases and boutique could be interchangable because most boutique cigars are limited production for multipul reason from limited tobacco supply because of funds or hard to find tobacco to limited funds focing smaller amounts.

I call it FOMO marketing. Sometimes thats all the leaf the a manufacturer has to work with but more often than not its a way to sell cigars. There are a lot of htf chasing suckers out there, myself included.

Last night I saw some Small Batch Beef Jerky at my local Super America...

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Originally Posted by Merovius

I call it FOMO marketing. Sometimes thats all the leaf the a manufacturer has to work with but more often than not its a way to sell cigars. There are a lot of htf chasing suckers out there, myself included.

Last night I saw some Small Batch Beef Jerky at my local Super America...

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Something about small batch jerk that doesn't appeal to me....

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Originally Posted by Demuths1770

but some definitions of boutique is a line thats made for just a single store, m80. its almost like limited releases and boutique could be interchangable because most boutique cigars are limited production for multipul reason from limited tobacco supply because of funds or hard to find tobacco to limited funds focing smaller amounts.

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It's not a boutique cigar in my opinion. It's a store exclusive, boutique cigars are made by boutique companies, which Tatuaje is not. Just my opinion yours may vary

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Originally Posted by droy1958

Something about small batch jerk that doesn't appeal to me....

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I hear you...pretty amusing though right...coming from a company the size of Jack Links.

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Originally Posted by Merovius

I hear you...pretty amusing though right...coming from a company the size of Jack Links.

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No kidding. I don't need Jack Link to make my errrr.... Never mind....

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Originally Posted by jp1979

It's not a boutique cigar in my opinion. It's a store exclusive, boutique cigars are made by boutique companies, which Tatuaje is not. Just my opinion yours may vary

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Agreed. I think I'm in the camp of boutique cigars come from boutique companies. What makes a company boutique? No idea - small qty, limited labels, I guess. I imagine a successful boutique brand quickly graduates from boutique to full-fledged.

But a big company putting out a limited edition/quantity cigar, or store exclusive, is just that - limited edition.