So feel free to load up on your boutiques now before the government crushes them:
FDA Chooses Option 1, Will Regulate Premium Cigars | halfwheel
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So feel free to load up on your boutiques now before the government crushes them:
FDA Chooses Option 1, Will Regulate Premium Cigars | halfwheel
Remind me again who pays the rocket scientists that make these decisions?Quote:
Originally Posted by jhedrick83
When an election cycle gives too many solid reasons to not care about voting anymore... Politicians more than disgust me these days.
I do not feel that I can adequately convey my diasspointment in the FDA, and all governing bodies of this country without ending up on a government watch list, or at the very least banned from the bum.
So, I'll leave it with this really does suck.
I hate the government. If our Founding Fathers were alive to see how far government reaches into our lives on a daily basis on just about every thing a person can do, they'd work on colonizing the moon I think to get away from this.
However, this maybe just what we needed to reign in Guhka's absurdly extensive line of cigars.
I don't have time right now to read the entire article but I am assuming this only applies to cigars legally sold here in the US?
Good thing we have the .gov to protect us...
:kicknuts:
:banghead:
Worst possible outcome ! Our government is dysfunctional and yet in their minds they are doing a great job.
Makes me wish I had a spiffy new cabinet only half full so I could stock up.........
This is very upsetting to hear; after reading the post on how new language was going to be implemented I was hoping for a better outcome. Our government always states that we live in the land of the free. This is so far from the truth. Everyday our dictator the "Government" forces on us what they believe is good and bad. I am an educated adult and can decide for myself what is good or not.
*sigh*
Yeah, this is a complete joke. It's horrible for the cigar industry and will pretty much single handidly shut down the e-cigarette and vaping industry. All thanks to the grandfathering date of 2007. Why even select a date if you are going to pick one over 9 years in the past. Thats just a giant middle finger to a large portion of the country.
I know we are a cigar loving bunch of bums, but I can think of at least a dozen local places that will suddenly be out of business as they all make their own types of e-liquid. and other vape items.
How much tax revenue, and how many thousands of jobs will be lost in the name of "public health"?
Hell fellas with all our new neighbors from the middle east, it wont be long and you wont miss cigars, guns, bikinis, bacon or your families! BS
Sad to see. There is a clear as day link to big money support for something like this to happen. Why follow the spirit of the Constitution when you can cash in...
Big Tobacco is happy as hell right now. Crushes smaller competition and reduces consumer options. The E-cigarette market is now able to be dominated by big tobacco, they can afford to wait around for FDA approval and can pay the fees.
Also allows big tobacco companies the ability to pick up smaller brands (E-Cig and cigars) for pennies on the dollar and expand their foothold. Be on the lookout for "exciting" merger news...
As long as money plays this large of a roll in politics, we the American consumer will always loose...
Who does the premium cigar industry hurt? Nobody is rolling blunts with their Padron wrappers. Nobody is getting behind the wheel and killing someone because they just finished a Fuente. Kids aren't secretly smoking an Eastern Standard behind school. Who does it hurt? They aren't dangerous or highly addictive. I don't need a nanny, I'm a grown ass man. It also makes me mad as a small business owner. The big corporations and conglomerates will be fine, they can afford it. The little guys can't. Crush the little guy and let the rich get richer. Not to mention the consolidations and mergers that will happen. Medium/Little guys may be forced to sell out to General or Altadis to keep the doors open. Then the products suffer. I'll stop ranting.
Kris is right though. It would only apply to products legally sold in the U.S. So maybe Viva the Embargo?! This shit is just depressing.
I'm also interested to see how this impacts private sales of cigars and "bombs".
It would probably have to move completed underground if they are going to be treated like cigarettes...
No, they would have been shooting by now.Quote:
Originally Posted by DogRockets
Remember what they did when the British imposed a 3% tax on their breakfast drink.
I read a good portion of it but am at a loss for what exactly this means for cigars. About all I got is a large warning sticker.
That's why I won't buy/support anything that Annheiser Busch/InBev owns as they pull every trick they can think of to keep the little guy from making it as they own portions of the distribution, though it isn't allowed to work that way after prohibition was lifted. Sorry, there's no room on our trucks...Quote:
Originally Posted by jhedrick83
They also BS a portion of consumers who don't want to buy big name brand beer by selling (it escapes me now which one) something labeled as mom and pop owned, but when you go to the address it a Bud factory with no sign out for that "small" brand.
Beer Wars is one of two documentaries about this.
"Nobody is rolling blunts with their Padron wrappers."
Wait, what, nobody else is using a quality Churchill to roll up a quarter?
Seems like I picked a bummer of a day to re-visit the site... Damn.
You never know I guess. I shouldn't belittle the high class stoners.Quote:
Originally Posted by rodwha
I lol'edQuote:
Originally Posted by DLtoker
I was fairly certain this would have a few hurdles to go over but it looks pretty bad for the little guy. Reading some of the comments from the talking heads at the FDA, its pretty clear what this is really about.
Could be pretty ugly.
Make sure you contact your representatives, tell them that we won't accept the FDA overreaching. They will be reined in, or the reps will go home, plain and simple
...and y'all thought Orwell's '1984' was fiction...
Every time I have ever contacted my state rep about something tobacco related, all I get is a lame, generic "fill in the blank" letter sent to me. The letter is so cheesy that it's offending.Quote:
Originally Posted by Usafvet509
"Dear Mr. Branzig,
Thank you for contacting me on this very important topic! As your state rep it is wonderful to hear from you! I will work delegently to look into and solve this for you! Thanks for contacting me! Help you never!"
When it comes to tobacco, you lose. I'm honestly surprised it took them this long. Plus dope is the new revenue maker. The more they can push legalized Marijuana the better. Keep the kids off cigs, get them on weed. The tax is higher.
Branzig! Where u bin?!?Quote:
Originally Posted by Branzig
@rodwha , I pulled this from Halfwheel.com goes into a little more detail.Quote:
Originally Posted by rodwha
FDA will regulate cigars of all shapes, size, origin and flavor. In brief terms, cigars will be divided into three categories:
Pre-2007 — Any cigar marketed prior to Feb. 15, 2007 is grandfathered and FDA can only impose certain restrictions on these products. Manufacturers will still be required to put warning labels that cover 30 percent of two main parts of the box and will be banned from giving free samples. They will also likely need to submit a document with a list of ingredients. Manufacturers will not have to receive any sort of approval from FDA about these products.
Post-2007 — Any cigar that is introduced on the market after Feb. 15, 2007, but before the rule goes into effect (Aug. 8, 2016) will be able to remain on the market for at least two years. After two years it will be subject to the same warning label requirements, but manufacturers will have to submit the product to FDA for approval. The cost of this remains unknown (see below).While FDA is reviewing the application, manufacturers will be allowed to sell these products until FDA rejects their applications. Alternatively, manufacturers could choose to keep these products on the market until this time 2018 and then ultimately decide not to submit for FDA approval to avoid paying the fee. However, they would not be able to reintroduce the product to market without getting pre-approval from FDA.
Post-Rules — After Aug. 8, 2016, a manufacturer will have to submit any new products for approval before they are allowed to enter the market. This would likely include any products that were introduced between Feb. 15, 2007-Aug. 8, 2016; but failed to apply within two years of the rule being introduced.
Walk-in humidors, internet sales and flavored cigars will all remain the same for now. Consumers will still be able to walk into a humidor, pick up and smell a cigar; however, they will not be able to be given a free sample by either a retailer or manufacturer.
Barring a lawsuit where a court grants an injunction or congressional action before Aug. 8, these rules will go into effect. A handful of initial takeaways.
1. THE STORM BEFORE THE CALM: IPCPR 2016
If there was any good news from the document, FDA extended the implementation period from the original 30 days to 90 days. This means the rules will not go into effect until after the 2016 IPCPR Convention & Trade Show, which takes place in late July.
The trade show will be crazy.
Barring any changes, this will be the last trade show where new products can be introduced without approval from FDA and I expect that we will see a record-setting amount of new products.
There doesn’t appear to be any rule that says you have to ship a certain amount of product before Aug. 8, 2016, so expect a lot of manufacturers to introduce a lot of new products before that date and then slowly release it to the market. As long as those products end up at one retailer prior to Aug. 8, that product will likely meet the requirement. These products are not entirely grandfathered–anything introduced after Feb. 15, 2007 will need to apply for FDA approval within two years or be removed from market–but introducing product now, even with a two-year lifespan, will be far more cost effective than introducing it on Aug. 9 and waiting for FDA approval.
It’s unclear what halfwheel will look like after August of this year, the amount of new product will come to a screeching halt barring any changes. FDA will have the ultimate authority of what products are allowed into the market and it’s unclear why they would have any incentive to respond to applications in a timely manner.
2. THE COST AND PROCESS FOR APPROVAL IS STILL UNCLEAR
Going into today the obvious question was what will FDA do. But the second largest question was if FDA chose to regulate premium cigars, how would it do it. Many parts of that answer remain unclear.
The document appears to show no outline on pricing for FDA submission or if the agency has any estimated turnaround time. Rumored numbers have been floated since April 2014, but none of those numbers seem particularly grounded in fact and FDA itself has said that it would likely use a different set of numbers and procedures depending on the product type, something it reiterated today.
Once the document outlining costs and the actually submission and approval process is published, we will know a lot more about whether both newer and smaller brands have a realistic shot of continuing to grow their business and whether new cigars will be able to be introduced.
3. INTERNET CIGAR SALES & FLAVORED CIGAR SALES ARE GOOD FOR NOW
In the draft of the document published today, FDA said it did not intend on eliminating the sale of cigars over the internet or of flavored tobacco—and it made good on that promise. Retailers will be required to ask for ID for any individual they believe to be under 26, but it’s unclear based on today’s document whether that will apply for internet sales—it would appear it will not.
FDA oddly seems less concerned with outlawing internet cigar sales. It remains unclear whether the agency could actually do so, particularly with some Congressional precedent set by the PACT Act, but at least for today, internet sales go on.
For flavored cigars, today is not the end, but FDA has announced that it intends on banning “characterizing flavors” from all tobacco products in the future. No timetable has been set on this, but the fight over “characterizing flavors” will be much more than simply ACID, Java and Tatiana—that fight will include Swisher, White Owl and potentially menthol.
4. THE LEGALIZATION OF CUBAN CIGARS IS DELAYED
Whenever the embargo gets lifted, Habanos S.A. will now need to apply as a new product before its portfolio of Cuban cigars can be sold in U.S. humidors.
Depending on the speed at which FDA decides to approve applications, this could mean that even if the embargo is lifted on Jan. 1, 2019 (just a random date) it might be years before they are legally able to be sold in humidors. The rule is clear that the products must be marketed in the U.S. prior to Feb. 15, 2007, something Cuban cigars cannot legally claim status to.
5. OUR HOPE LIES IN…CONGRESS
Congress hasn’t been the most productive place in the world. Now it’s the likeliest savior for the cigar industry.
While lawsuits are certainly coming and injunctive relief might be granted, it’s an expensive and unclear path to victory. Oddly, a Congress that has been fairly inept at passing much of anything might be the premium cigar community’s best hope.
Last month, the House Appropriations Committee passed a draft of its FY2017 agriculture bill. In it were two provisions that would directly affect today’s rule. One would exempt premium cigars from FDA regulation, the other would change the grandfather date to Aug. 8, 2017. The latter is going to be controversial, particularly because it would also grandfather in almost all of the e-cigarette industry, and anti-tobacco advocates have already seized on it as a major issue.
Exempting premium cigars is less controversial and the hope now for cigar smokers must be that cigar-friendly members of Congress fight to keep the language in the final version of the bill.
Unfortunately for cigar smokers, it’s more likely than not that the final bill will not be voted on until after August. It is possible that the rules go into effect in August and then Congress passes a bill with exemption language, meaning the rules were temporarily enacted and then suspended. The good news is, the Agriculture Bill must be voted on at some point, because otherwise agencies like FDA have no funding; the bad news is it’s probably not going to happen until after the November elections.
This is all ridiculous and obviously ought not to include premium cigars.
Contents: Tobacco.
DLtoker agrees! :blockhead:Quote:
Originally Posted by jhedrick83
I'm guessing more details are still to come but yea this is the biggest part of all this that seems clear as of now. Giant warning labels aren't that big a deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by rodwha
One of the things I'm interested in that hasn't and probably won't get brought up is how leaf is cased and processed. It could be as simple as some rum and a little pineapple but they could also be using a slew of things most wouldn't want anything to do with. If regulation is going to force them to reveal if leaf is getting anything other than DW then it may be somewhat of a silver lining. Still doesn't excuse the rest of the BS though.
To a small degree I can understand the argument for regulation of vaping/e-cig products as they are a new industry and who the hell knows what goes into some of them. Full disclosure, I don't vape, I don't plan to ever take it up. How that's related to premium cigars I have no idea. Cole is right, there may be a benefit to the companies having to disclose their processes but it should be left at that. Let consenting adults make their own decisions.
I don't vape either, but my wife does. Some regulation and disclosure would be a good thing but what has been proposed by this would essentially only leave the big corporations left in that industry. And by big corporations, I mean the ones owned by the tobacco companies. There are dozens of small businesses in most cities that make and sell their own custom blends that would suddenly be forced to close shop because they cannot afford the FDA requirements.Quote:
Originally Posted by jhedrick83
Even if a submission was only$5000, with the way it is currently laid out as I understand it they would have to submit each flavor and nicotine level seperately. So for most places thats $45000 per flavor. Bear in mind the only difference between nicotine levels is how much of a nicotine concentrate they add. The local my wife uses has 40 flavors. Thats $1.8 million total, using an absurdly low nuber per submission.
Every aspect of this for cigars and vaping is a combination of cash grab and nanny state bs to appease the angry ignorant.
You know the government won't do that! We are too stupid to take care of ourselves!Quote:
Originally Posted by jhedrick83
It's going to really suck a$$ if the number of boutique brands on the market drops drastically and prices sore. If you haven't yet, go to the CRA website and fill out the petition letters. This will send letters to your senators and local rep. Not sure how much it will actually achieve, but every little bit helps.
Ahem...this rocket scientist enjoys cigars and would kick any of his colleagues in the ass if they were part of this decision.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanS
when and IF FY 2017 Appropriations Bill gets passed premium cigars will be exempt from this processQuote:
Originally Posted by rodwha
Exactly. Just be up front and let people make their own choices from there.Quote:
Originally Posted by jhedrick83
Thats the sad part of it all. I think most people are all for a little more transparency and appropriate regulation but this is likely big business pulling their shady antics instead of the type of change real people are willing to stand behind at the end of the day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardheaded
Nailed it. Government isn't run by red and blue, it's run by green.Quote:
Originally Posted by HIM