Pipe Tobacco Blends: Under The Label

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Originally Posted by c.ortiz108

Curiouser and curiouser.... So ultimately a lot of these brands will be traceable back to a few manufacturers and therefore presumably the same factories, meaning some are probably identical or close (the equivalent of "seconds").

TR = tobaccoreviews.com. Apologies for the obscure abbreviation.

I guess I glossed over the part about the nic buzz through his fingers! I'd been reading a news article about medical marijuana a few minutes earlier, so I was probably stoned.... :stupid:

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Evening Chico,

It was my business to quickly assess the level of a smoker by their words or small actions and this fellow seems to be a new arrival who is infatuated but has little foundation in fact. Fellows like this love the story and in the absence of detail they fill in the blanks.

Yes, there are a limited number of manufacturers and many brands (faces). These manufacturers usually make tobaccos under brand names that they own as well as brands that they're contracted to make. The Rattray's name, for example, was never owned by McConnell but he made the tobaccos for them under contract for the better part of a century. Unlike pipes, there are no seconds in tobacco. If there's a bad batch it's discarded. It comes down to how each manufacturer buys their leaf and processes it and there's a similarity across their brands and faces in quality and to some degree, content..

Tobacco Review is written by individual smokers who may or may not know the facts in any given situation. Until you can confirm what you read there (or elsewhere) put a question mark next to it :).

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Originally Posted by NeverBend

Evening Chico,

It was my business to quickly assess the level of a smoker by their words or small actions and this fellow seems to be a new arrival who is infatuated but has little foundation in fact. Fellows like this love the story and in the absence of detail they fill in the blanks.

Yes, there are a limited number of manufacturers and many brands (faces). These manufacturers usually make tobaccos under brand names that they own as well as brands that they're contracted to make. The Rattray's name, for example, was never owned by McConnell but he made the tobaccos for them under contract for the better part of a century. Unlike pipes, there are no seconds in tobacco. If there's a bad batch it's discarded. It comes down to how each manufacturer buys their leaf and processes it and there's a similarity across their brands and faces in quality and to some degree, content..

Tobacco Review is written by individual smokers who may or may not know the facts in any given situation. Until you can confirm what you read there (or elsewhere) put a question mark next to it :).

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Good to know about tobacco "seconds" - so assuming variation between the example above (Davidoff FM, Comoy's 7, and PS Bullseye), that would be due to differences in the quality of tobacco they started with, rather than anything that happens in processing. So if they're all made in the same factory, it may be something like the choicest cuts of what they purchased goes into DFM, the slightly less choice into PS, and the dregs into Comoy's.

Good to know about Tobacco Reviews, too - I'd assumed that the descriptive information on each blend was "official" and that it was just the reviews themselves that anyone could do. I guess that explains why some blends will list a particular kind of tobacco, and some reviews will swear it's not there and some swear it is.

I read that Newminster is made in the Mac Baren factory; a collaboration between them and Villager.

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Originally Posted by NeverBend

This made me blink. He got a nic buzz from touching the tobacco?? I guess he gets drunk looking at Jack Daniels bottles too? Maybe if he chewed a flake.

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Seein' as how you are the only Worthy Font of Tobacco Knowledge, you never heard of it, so it can't exist, right?

CLICKY---> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Tobacco_Sickness

Now a days it's usually migrants that suffer from this, but when I was a kid, all the kids were let outta school to bring in the harvest, and it was mostly kids suffering from GTS. A few would even die each year.

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Originally Posted by El Whedo

Seein' as how you are the only Worthy Font of Tobacco Knowledge, you never heard of it, so it can't exist, right?

CLICKY---> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Tobacco_Sickness

Now a days it's usually migrants that suffer from this, but when I was a kid, all the kids were let outta school to bring in the harvest, and it was mostly kids suffering from GTS. A few would even die each year.

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Wow, that's harsh. Was this in NM?

Not surprising that that kind of intense exposure would have dire consequences, but getting a nic buzz from rubbing out flakes....?

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Originally Posted by c.ortiz108

Good to know about tobacco "seconds" - so assuming variation between the example above (Davidoff FM, Comoy's 7, and PS Bullseye), that would be due to differences in the quality of tobacco they started with, rather than anything that happens in processing. So if they're all made in the same factory, it may be something like the choicest cuts of what they purchased goes into DFM, the slightly less choice into PS, and the dregs into Comoy's.

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Correct, there are no seconds, no need.

Incorrect about 'choicest cuts', there is no such thing. Leaf is graded and sold at or before the wholesaler (supplier) level. Manufacturer's buy graded leaf. If Davidoff FM, Comoy Cask #7 and Stokkeby Bullseye all have the same formula, then they will be the same tobacco. Make the roll, slice tobacco into tins and put three different labels on the stuff. If the formula calls for a different or better quality leaf then it's a different formula.

Manufacturers (normally) won't change they way that they make tobacco to suit a single client so each incarnation of a specific mixture should be the same no matter who the end customer is or what that customer claims. When re-selling the product, one may say, 'choicest' leaf and the other 'best quality' but they're both referring to the same VirginiaXYZ from that manufacturer.

Manufacturers may require a minimum quantity before they'll make custom mixtures but it's also possible that they'll insist on a small difference, as McConnell did.

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Originally Posted by c.ortiz108

Good to know about Tobacco Reviews, too - I'd assumed that the descriptive information on each blend was "official" and that it was just the reviews themselves that anyone could do. I guess that explains why some blends will list a particular kind of tobacco, and some reviews will swear it's not there and some swear it is.

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Yes, very observant.

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Originally Posted by BryGuySC

I read that Newminster is made in the Mac Baren factory; a collaboration between them and Villager.

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Bryan, I'm smoking the Newminster #403 Superior Round Slices (P&C 20% sale) as I write. The curlies certainly look and taste more like MacBaren and not Stokkebye and they've been working with Dark Fired KY, so it's appearance in contract mixtures makes sense (and may be the same as something else under a different label).

The Newminster #403 smokes hot and a bit coarse but it's like a poor man's version of Gawith Hoggarth Curly Cut deLuxe Sliced and that's good company. Give me a few more bowls but I think that we should link them on profile and taste.

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Originally Posted by NeverBend

Correct, there are no seconds, no need.

Incorrect about 'choicest cuts', there is no such thing. Leaf is graded and sold at or before the wholesaler (supplier) level. Manufacturer's buy graded leaf. If Davidoff FM, Comoy Cask #7 and Stokkeby Bullseye all have the same formula, then they will be the same tobacco. Make the roll, slice tobacco into tins and put three different labels on the stuff. If the formula calls for a different or better quality leaf then it's a different formula.

Manufacturers (normally) won't change they way that they make tobacco to suit a single client so each incarnation of a specific mixture should be the same no matter who the end customer is or what that customer claims. When re-selling the product, one may say, 'choicest' leaf and the other 'best quality' but they're both referring to the same VirginiaXYZ from that manufacturer.

Manufacturers may require a minimum quantity before they'll make custom mixtures but it's also possible that they'll insist on a small difference, as McConnell did.

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I have some Bullseye on the way, so will do a side-by-side comparison with DFM at some point. They again, this is a person that can't really tell the difference between one burley aro and another, so not sure my observations will be very useful!

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Originally Posted by NeverBend

Correct, there are no seconds, no need.

Bryan, I'm smoking the Newminster #403 Superior Round Slices (P&C 20% sale) as I write. The curlies certainly look and taste more like MacBaren and not Stokkebye and they've been working with Dark Fired KY, so it's appearance in contract mixtures makes sense (and may be the same as something else under a different label).

The Newminster #403 smokes hot and a bit coarse but it's like a poor man's version of Gawith Hoggarth Curly Cut deLuxe Sliced and that's good company. Give me a few more bowls but I think that we should link them on profile and taste.

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I heard that the 403 really needs some aging time to smooth it out.

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Originally Posted by El Whedo

Seein' as how you are the only Worthy Font of Tobacco Knowledge, you never heard of it, so it can't exist, right?

CLICKY---> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Tobacco_Sickness

Now a days it's usually migrants that suffer from this, but when I was a kid, all the kids were let outta school to bring in the harvest, and it was mostly kids suffering from GTS. A few would even die each year.

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Hi Mark,

You can’t compare the problem of nicotine poisoning in a tobacco harvester, who handles thousands of raw,wet leaves a day and over time, to some guy who thinks that he got a buzz from sticking his fingers into a tin of processed pipe tobacco. Does Hamborger Veermaster give you a buzz when you touch it?

This isn’t the first time that you’ve made a snide response to me and I sent you a PM the last time, to keep it off of the forum, but you didn’t reply. I don’t apologize for my expertise and I’ve responded to you, here and before, with respect and trust that you’ll do the same going forward.

Pete

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Originally Posted by El Whedo

Seein' as how you are the only Worthy Font [sic] of Tobacco Knowledge, you never heard of it, so it can't exist, right?

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Mark,

I must say I consider you an expert in the realm of pipes and baccy and while I have no problems with you or anyone else disagreeing with another member, I hardly see it as constructive to be a fvcking a$$hole about it.

Just my worthless 2 bits... take it for what it's worth.