Newb question about tinned vs. bulk tobacco

[Tobias Lutz]

Sorry; poke me with a stick, and I tend to snarl. I'll watch it.

Damnit! I knew we were missing an important smiley

[NeverBend]

Which one; you created a monster...

To be honest, I always looked at the term "aging" as a polite way of saying "rotting rates" anyway, so yeah. I guess we're talking about different things.

All of them - I want a full report with pictures, that's the least that you could do.

There are processes, like tanning and fermentation that retard or virtually eliminate rotting under the right conditions. Does leather normally rot? This is a decent basic explanation of fermentation.

http://www.neptunecigar.com/co/artic...mentation.aspx

Fermentation is a micro organism activity that doesn't occur after it's finished. It leaves the leaf more stable and ready to be processed into a smoking product.
No, it's not rotting.

Tell me about the Jacopo pipes!

Pete

[NeverBend]

OMG means "Oh My God" then Really means, in this sense, a Sarcasm!

Man, your trying to compare processed foods with, zillions of additives, to something botanical and, in a sense, alive!

I'm done with this!

Hi Johnny,

Mooster doesn't need my testimonial but he's a good guy with a natural tendency to be skeptical. This forum needs both you you guys.

I received my Nesco VS-02 sealer. Came with a decent starter assortment of bags too so that I can see what sizes work before investing. Many thanks for your help.

In researching bags I intend to buy some with the zip-seal so that I can manually reseal the bag after I open it (and lose the vacuum). Here are some links to the bags that I found but use care on WebRestaurantStore, they have a lot of good stuff and when I've ordered before it was a decent size order. I'm sure that you are aware of this but don't buy bags made for chamber sealers, they're different (and cheaper).

6x10 resealable bags, lot of 50 for ~.17c each.
http://www.webstaurantstore.com/ary-...VBM946501.html

Large lots, selection of sizes and cheap - 6 x 10 bag .06c each in lots of 1000.
http://www.uline.com/BL_5563/Vacuum-Bags

Regards,

Pete

[NeverBend]

I'm just going to leave this here... http://www.glpease.com/Articles/vacuum.html

Hi Quan,

You need to man up and say I agree or disagree otherwise you're just pooping on my foot and running away .

This article is about a guy who knew exactly what he expected to find, did something (not scientific), in order to prove what he wanted to find. I don’t know what he did because he says nothing about the type of tobacco, moisture or any other details, except packaging, yet he still evaluates a (supposedly) vacuum sealed package where the tobacco has dried inside.....duh. The problem with the Internet is that someone writes garbage, others read it, some believe it and some poop it on other people's feet .

He implies that the 'fully vacuum sealed' package contains a Virginia. Of course Virginia marries (ages) very slowly and they need moisture but our scientist's bag was leaking and drying.

Let's assume that he had the palate and ability to properly relate the changes that he found the question remains, what did he find?

Oxygenation. Or breathing as it’s known in wine. I call it decanting and many manufacturers package their tobacco this way, including Pease. So it was about proving Pease’ packaging superiority?

In Chicago last year a friend graciously opened a tin of 1989 Elephant & Castle, The Stout that was packaged in a round, flat vacuum pressure tin. The tobacco was too old with it’s taste withered away as many have found with old latakia mixtures. At the same show I purchased a tin of 1996 McClelland #14 that was packaged with some air and no pressure as McClelland does. It was excellent but it wouldn’t have been if it was packaged the same way that The Stout was. It wasn't under pressure so it hadn't aged a lot.

Some posts/articles discuss not smoking very old tobacco (mostly pressure / vacuum tins with old VIrginia flake) and letting them sit for several days to several weeks. Oxygenation, breathing, decanting.

Pease, McClelland, C&D, Rattrays and many more pack with their tobacco decanted. I’m sure that they love tobacco in cellars but they make their tobacco (like wineries) to be consumed immediately. It may be a cultural/traditional thing because the pressure/vacuum tins seem to be mainly made outside the States. Decanted packaging is better right out of the tin while the vacuum/pressure will age better (but can age too much). This is a generality but you can be specific by understanding the type of tobacco that you’re storing and the techniques available to you.

Test my ideas with a latakia mixture in a vacuum/pressure tin where the changes will occur more rapidly. Open the tin and smoke a bowl. Loosen (fluff it out) the remainder to the consistency of a McClelland tin tobacco. Put it into a mason jar (no need to seal it with wax or even virgin’s sweat) and leave it for a few weeks. The air in the jar will suck moisture until it achieves stasis. Tumble the tobacco as much as you like. Try the tobacco and there will be a difference.

Claims that bulks and tins are different are probably based on decanting.

Pete

[Commander Quan]

No. If I was going to crap on your foot, I would have said you are a verbose blowhard.
The article speeks for itself.

[NeverBend]

No. If I was going to crap on your foot, I would have said you are a verbose blowhard.
The article speeks for itself.

Lol! I'll take that as a yes and wipe my feet before going inside.

[johnnyflake]

Nice post NeverBend, interesting information.

[fastnbulbous]

Bulk vs Jarred tobacco.

I have not bought any tins yet. All I have are jarred bulk tobacco.

1. Would you guess that most of these bulk tobaccos have tinned counterparts, or are they housemade?
2. If a bulk tobacco is called Devonshire, does that mean it would be one of a hundred different brands?

The jarred tobaccos that I have bought seem to have generic type names, but no brand names.

3. How do I know what I am getting?
I assume the answer to this is to ask the person you buy it from, but I am just checking how many different tobaccos are out there with the same name.

[NeverBend]

Bulk vs Jarred tobacco.

I have not bought any tins yet. All I have are jarred bulk tobacco.

1. Would you guess that most of these bulk tobaccos have tinned counterparts, or are they housemade?
2. If a bulk tobacco is called Devonshire, does that mean it would be one of a hundred different brands?

The jarred tobaccos that I have bought seem to have generic type names, but no brand names.

3. How do I know what I am getting?
I assume the answer to this is to ask the person you buy it from, but I am just checking how many different tobaccos are out there with the same name.

Hi Adam,

Welcome to the pipe side of things.

Bulks can be vendor (stores - B&M, online) created blends or repackaged (wholesale) bulk that they buy. There are a finite number of bulk suppliers so either the blend itself or the components will have come from one of them. Some manufacturers sell tin and bulk versions of the same blend, like Gawith Hoggarth Bob’s Chocolate Flake (as an example).

Some vendors make their own blends, some don’t and what they tell you about the derivation of the tobacco may or not be true (they may not want to disclose their source). If it’s a bulk supplier blend then it’s sure to be sold by many vendors under different labels.

“Devonshire” sounds like a house name but I can’t tell you anything about it.

I’d suggest learning about the component leaf and the general types of blends like English, Virginia and Aromatics as a start. Try going to the online vendor sites like 4Noggins, Pipes & Cigars, PipeTobacco, etc., to get a feel for what’s out there and keep asking questions.

[Bruck]

Adam, @fastnbulbous , I'm not sure if I've had enough adult beverages to fully understand your questions, but I perceive that you are in the same boat as I am regarding the sheer number of brands and blends out there. I don't have a good answer other than the usual try a number of things till you find what you like. A good website to help sort it out is tobaccoreviews.com - it's got reviews and basic info for thousands of blends. Some of our local bums post on it.