Newb question about tinned vs. bulk tobacco

[johnnyflake]

I believe that in some cases a difference does exist. Differences exist between between companies on how and where tobaccos are blended. From what I recall sometime back while doing some research and I believe it was with Orlik, that the tins were made in Europe and the bulks are produced in the USA. The same was true for other companies as well. That would mean tobacco from different areas were used to produce the same blends. IMHO, that would mean that there would be minor differences in the flavor profile of the tinned tobacco vs the bulk tobacco.

Also, the flavors of tinned tobacco will mature much more quickly that bulk tobacco.

[Cool Breeze]

Also, the flavors of tinned tobacco will mature much more quickly that bulk tobacco.

So does that mean if I'm wanting to age it I should buy the tins and set them aside?
I ask because I've heard a lot of people who take it out of the tins and transfer to jars to age.

This seems counter-productive to me because it means you've lost whatever time the tobacco has already been in the tin.
Of course I know some tins are very tightly packed and others like Hearth and Home are not packed tightly in the tin, so there is some air inside. I would assume the air is good for the aging process.

Maybe I'm thinking about it wrong though. I appreciate everyone's input and any further information is welcome as well.

[johnnyflake]

So does that mean if I'm wanting to age it I should buy the tins and set them aside?
I ask because I've heard a lot of people who take it out of the tins and transfer to jars to age.

This seems counter-productive to me because it means you've lost whatever time the tobacco has already been in the tin.
Of course I know some tins are very tightly packed and others like Hearth and Home are not packed tightly in the tin, so there is some air inside. I would assume the air is good for the aging process.

Maybe I'm thinking about it wrong though. I appreciate everyone's input and any further information is welcome as well.

Tins are the very best way to age tobacco, for the greatest effect/results. However, before putting a tin away for long term storage be sure that it is properly sealed. About 10% of the tins you buy will not be properly sealed, even though they appear to be. Here is a simple test to find out. Take a tin that you plan to age and place it in fresh, new, sandwich size baggie and seal it. Put it somewhere to set for a week. After a week, open the baggie very slowly and place the opening, as you are opening it, by your nose. If you smell a distinct aroma of tobacco, it's not sealed properly, so smoke it up, it is not worthy of being aged/stored. If you do not smell any tobacco are just the faintest hint of tobacco, it is properly sealed and good for long term storage.

[NeverBend]

Tins are the very best way to age tobacco, for the greatest effect/results. However, before putting a tin away for long term storage be sure that it is properly sealed. About 10% of the tins you buy will not be properly sealed, even though they appear to be. Here is a simple test to find out. Take a tin that you plan to age and place it in fresh, new, sandwich size baggie and seal it. Put it somewhere to set for a week. After a week, open the baggie very slowly and place the opening, as you are opening it, by your nose. If you smell a distinct aroma of tobacco, it's not sealed properly, so smoke it up, it is not worthy of being aged/stored. If you do not smell any tobacco are just the faintest hint of tobacco, it is properly sealed and good for long term storage.

Hi John,

Very good advice offered in this thread.

You make a very good point about the possibility that the bulk tobacco is made as a separate batch from the tins, whether in the same location or not. No two batches of tobacco are ever exactly the same through they're usually close. If a company makes separate batches for use in tins and another for bulk there will be subtle differences. If they source from different areas (as I'd presume if it's made in different locations) the differences could be more apparent.

Good point about testing the vacuum seal on the tin. Your method of testing is more definitive but if there's any give to the top of the tin it's a bad seal.

Lastly, tobacco tinned under pressure will marry faster and age more quickly. I put tobacco into mason jars with more pressure. Without pressure, the tobacco in mason jars will be ready to smoke more quickly but age less. Flakes, if left together as a cake will age well.

Pete

[johnnyflake]

Hi John,

Very good advice offered in this thread.

You make a very good point about the possibility that the bulk tobacco is made as a separate batch from the tins, whether in the same location or not. No two batches of tobacco are ever exactly the same through they're usually close. If a company makes separate batches for use in tins and another for bulk there will be subtle differences. If they source from different areas (as I'd presume if it's made in different locations) the differences could be more apparent.

Good point about testing the vacuum seal on the tin. Your method of testing is more definitive but if there's any give to the top of the tin it's a bad seal.

Lastly, tobacco tinned under pressure will marry faster and age more quickly. I put tobacco into mason jars with more pressure. Without pressure, the tobacco in mason jars will be ready to smoke more quickly but age less. Flakes, if left together as a cake will age well.

Pete

That is a very good point!

Another way to age bulk tobacco, a way I started using about 7 years ago, is to break it up into 1.0oz, 2.0oz, & 4.0oz units and then use a food style vacuum sealing unit and the thick 8oz size sealing bags, to vacuum seal the tobaccos, in the sizes that suit your needs best. I have opened a number of them at the 3, 4 & 5 year periods and the differences are amazing, especially with Virginia and Va/Perique blends. McClelland 2015, after just 3 years, smells exactly like Chocolate Covered Cherries.

[Cool Breeze]

Another way to age bulk tobacco, a way I started using about 7 years ago, is to break it up into 1.0oz, 2.0oz, & 4.0oz units and then use a food style vacuum sealing unit and the thick 8oz size sealing bags, to vacuum seal the tobaccos, in the sizes that suit your needs best. I have opened a number of them at the 3, 4 & 5 year periods and the differences are amazing, especially with Virginia and Va/Perique blends. McClelland 2015, after just 3 years, smells exactly like Chocolate Covered Cherries.

Well, I learned something else today it looks like.
I was under the impression that it needed air to age properly.

We process our own deer so I have access to a vacuum sealer. And I have a few ounces of McClelland Red Cake that would be ideal to get started with.

[NeverBend]

Hi Coolbreeze,

Tins are vacuum sealed too but short of very expensive equipment you won't remove all oxygen with a household sealer nor a manufacturer sealed tin (that seal similarly to a mason jar). I've read that the changes in taste are made by aerobic bacteria but I don't know the source of that claim nor if it's true.

At intervals over the last 25 years I've been opening tins from the late 1980s (mostly one brand) and have found that the changes are consistent with tobaccos marrying rather than bacterial activity. If 'ageing' is the gradual (usually) subtle change in flavor profile then that too is consistent with marrying. Marrying is the acceptance of characteristics (flavor, aroma) from the other leaf in a mixture (or cigar).

Dry tobacco doesn't age well, (if at all), so I assume that moisture must be an agent of change. Virginia and Carolina do not easily flavor or take on the characteristics of other leaf. Both of these points support the idea that it is extended marrying that is actually what is transpiring. This explains why latakia loses potency and Virginia ages best (especially with extended ageing). If your hope is to achieve a smoother more nuanced version of the original mixture then understand how time in a vacuum sealed package affects what type of leaf because we shouldn't be warehousing latakia mixtures in the hopes that they will marry into something similar but superior to the original only to find that after 15 years it's just a muddled reminder of what it was.

A lack of oxygen would help to inhibit mold but most manufacturers use some form of anti-fungal. Long ago, Rattray Marlin Flake was notorious for molding (1980s and before) but it was still worth the effort .

Pete

[NeverBend]

Hi Johnny,

Thanks for the idea, sounds like a great way to handle the bulks (and to add pressure) that I'm going to look into immediately. Any suggestions on sealers and bags?

Pete

[johnnyflake]

Hi Johnny,

Thanks for the idea, sounds like a great way to handle the bulks (and to add pressure) that I'm going to look into immediately. Any suggestions on sealers and bags?

Pete

You will only need a basic food style vacuum sealing unit and they are the least expensive. The more expensive units come with all different kinds of bells & whistles that are not needed. I have found that the better, more expensive, pre-made, 5 or 7 mil bags in the 8.0oz size work the best.

[Mister Moo]

So does that mean if I'm wanting to age it I should buy the tins and set them aside?
I ask because I've heard a lot of people who take it out of the tins and transfer to jars to age..

I jarred many tobaccos, including some tins, lots of bulk and all foil packed bulk. I conclude:

1. some of it ages brilliantly, shows crystals and sometimes even plumes cigar-like;
2. some of it seems to remain static and some improves a little;
3. none is worse for the experience except maybe latakia which often loses intensity*;
4. none if it ever leaks and totally craps out; and
5. johnnyflake probably knows more about this anyone I know. He been around, ya know? He been around.

*not the worst thing if virginia in a latakia blend is also improving.