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I'll admit, I never froze. It seemed to be less of a concern with non-cc's. I got a bit paranoid a while back when there were some cases of some Crowned Head's getting beetles so I've paid pretty close attention to my stock to check for signs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Strande
Hopefully this will be a non issue once my wineador arrives!
That is some very disturbing photos you got there. This is some old information that I got from another BOTL a few years back and its what I follow today.
There will be constant discussion around whether or not to freeze your cigars and whether it impacts flavor or not. If the risk of potential damage in the form of burst wrappers, loss of flavor, or drying out is worth taking a risk on having cigar beetles. I have enclosed a couple of the more extreme versions of what happens to cigars after these critters get to them. It can happen in both Cuban and Non-Cuban varieties.
One of the first things to understand is that although many producers including cubans may flash freeze their cigars that is only one poin on the stop to your humidor. Also cigars are very insulative and given that we do not fully know the quality control of the producer there is risk that eggs are not killed. In addition there are points along the way that beetles can be introduced, secondary wholesaler, vendor, or sadly that fellow BOTL or SOTL that so kindly bombed you are sold you a few sticks. So prevention in my mind is the key.
I have adopted a 100% freeze policy, that means that every stick that enters my house is frozen before being tranferred to my humidors regardless of where they come from or how they are shipped and regardless of outside weather. After two infestations I have never had one single case.
The are many opinions around how long it takes to kill the various stages of beetles. I have read many different forums and finally started searching for research rather than word of mouth. After reading several similar studies with varying degrees of testing and information I settled on one that I felt was most comprehensive for a Cigar Smokers needs.
The study is:
Low-temperature as an alternative to fumigation to disinfest stored tobacco of the cigarette beetle, Lasioderma serricorne (F.) (Coleoptera: Anobiidae)
Completed and submitted on April 2005 revised October 2005 as undertaken at the Leaf Tobacco Research Center, Japan Tobacco Inc.
One other thing I did was check the average temperature of my freezer. If you don't have a thermometer I have looked and found that the average temperature of a household freezer is between -12 and -18 degrees Celsius and if you go with the higher temp and work from there there is little risk.
Many people will tell you that the freezing will ruin the taste of the cigars. I have my opinion and that is there is no discernable difference. In addition I have bombed, gifted, traded, sold several hundred cigars to members of this board and others and not one has told me that the cigar tasted like it was "frozen" opinions will vary on this but there is little if any imperical evidence either way.
Last peice before I lay out the process is one excerpt from the white paper, and that is the mortality table for all stages of cigar beetles and various temperatures.
Egg
-20 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 1 hr
-15 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 4 hr
-10 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 12 hr
-5 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 48 hr
0 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 240 hr
5 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 336 hr
Larval
-20 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 1 hr
-15 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 3 hr
-10 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 12 hr
-5 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 96 hr
0 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 288 hr
5 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 336 hr
Acclimated Larval (acclimated at 15 Celsius for 3 months to determine acclimation impact if any)
-20 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 1 hr
-15 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 6 hr
-10 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 24 hr
-5 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 504 hr
0 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 1176 hr
5 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 1680 hr
Pupal
-20 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 1 hr
-15 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 4 hr
-10 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 48 hr
-5 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 288 hr
0 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 840 hr
Adult
-20 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 1 hr
-15 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 2 hr
-10 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 2 hr
-5 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 72 hr
0 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 288 hr
5 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 840 hr
This information is the information I used to determine my process.
Given the insulative properties of a box of cigars I deduced (ok fully guessed) that doubling the time would be sufficient to bring the cigars to the appropriate temperature for the appropriate time. It is important to remember that this was direct exposure to these temperatures for the bugs not nestled into a box of your favorite sticks.
The following is my process based on what I have read and adjusted from the above and others.
1. I vacumm seal my cigars in freezer grade bags ( I use a food saver food vacuum for boxes but be cautious it can crush a spanish cedar box easily) or a straw and lung power for singles. While some folk double bag if you are using food quality freezer grade I don't see a need for this.
2. I then put the cigars in the fridge to slowly lower the temperature closer to the freezing point to prevent possible wrapper bursting from rapid freeze, I also assume (again a guess) that it is gentler on the cigars. I leave them there for 12 hours.
3. I then move the cigars to the freezer where they will stay for 48 hours this ensures that the temperature is reached and any potential bugs are more than dead.
4. The cigars then go back to the fridge to allow for a little slower thaw, this is done for between 12-24 hours.
5. I then remove the cigars from the fridge and keep them in the back and allow them to come up to room temperature (3-5 hours)
6. Out of the bag and back in the humidor where they will rest for a couple of weeks to acclimate to the RH% that I like as would any stick from a vendor.
I'm not going to quote that entire post but wow @tjhemp that was a great post! I'll admit I had read some of that same research and I'm totally a case of "that will never happen to me". Live and learn, I seem to be lucky in that I found the damage quickly and also alerted those I passed to quickly. Seriously though, your post is sticky worthy in my opinion!
Well that sucks Chris but good you caught it before the little bastards chomped your stash.
Dayum. I'm still a non-freezer, but watching it happen to someone instead of hearing the story from the past is starting to shake me.
Will I change? Probably not until this same crap happens to me... or I see a few more stories pop up in the near future...
but seriously, glad you caught it early, and took right to treatment!
Beetles, yuck!
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/__MbZY_gKBM.../cat+vomit.jpg
This is no more than ,at best, semi related to the topic of Beetles.
When I was storing a number of boxes in a coolador, from time to time I'd add a box or two that I 'd purchased cellophaned unopened into the Coolador.
Luckily never had a problem. Now, tho a sealed box may sit on a shelf for a week or or more, every box is opened and checked before the cigars go into the huimidor.
Did have a problem, once, only once. Three boxes of 7x48~49 (Churchills ?) that were purchased by a girl on vacation. A nice gesture, someone takes time to do this ,fly back with that extra weight,etc.Everything looked perfect, boxes sealed, no damage. When opened there was not an inch of cigar that hadn't been destroyed by beetles. Thanked her for getting the cigars for me, couldn't tell her the condition of the cigars. The fault was mine.
I'd forgotten to ask her to purchase at the one location that kept their stock right. Most likely she purchased them at a smaller shop. The cost was less than $90.00 (did I say it was a while back?)....but I sure as hell had been looking forwards to those.
I'll be honest I about looked like that cat when I found them. Especially knowing I had recently sent out two of those sticks. Having looked through everything and talked to those BOTL's I believe this was isolated to the two sticks in my humidor. Needless to say I'll be freezing from here on out (have access to a chest freezer, might as well use it) and will be storing in a wineador too.Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanTheEvans
Ouch, I am really sorry to hear about that, Chris!
This is a good wakeup call. It's a pain to have to freeze everything but I'm not willing to risk the alternative. Thanks for the reminder Chris!
damn Chris that is some scary stuff right there. Looking at those pics freaks me out. I have never frozen any cigars before. Now I feel like I need to go inspect every single cigar I have. I keep the temp in my wineador at 65 degrees usually. So I am hoping I will never have this issue but ignorance is truly bliss and I have to really reconsider freezing everything new coming in
I'm just glad to hear that you caught it so soon. and congrats on the wineador. Its the only way to go!