CI "Fake" Cigars?

[Billb1960]

So here's the video that @Lapithicus was referring to:

If you skip to 23:00 you can see the discussion about these cigars.

What I don't understand is if Bryan knew the whole story back in early January when this video was produced why did he bother to create a new one with all of the hyperbole. Doesn't make much sense to me.

[B daddy]

Advertising is primarily bullshit. I wish it weren't allowed to be but it is. If it's 100% bullshit and the product's advertising is specifically regulated and it's damaging, then there might be legal reprocussions. But if it's only 80% bullshit, there's really no downside. In this particular instance, as long as it's tobacco inside (vs rat feces or oily rags) it's within acceptable tolerances. If you have a problem with it, vote with your feet.

[Ropey]

Porsche would never sell their brand because they wouldn't want their name tarnished

Porsche sells its name to a myriad of others.. I've seen Porsche vacuums, Porsche lighters, all sorts of stuff that's obviously not made by Porsche.

MY point and MY opinion is that this happens so much with so many other products that it just isn't an issue for me personally.

And hey, that's great, if you get ripped off so often that you're at a point in life where you don't mind when someone bends you over and sticks it in your butt one more time, then that's wonderful. I'm not at that point, hope I never am.

If this were a one-off from Cigars International, this thread wouldn't have expanded to 12 pages. However, I think that they, Thompson, the rest of the online cigar retailers, and perhaps the entire cigar industry are seen as such marketing hucksters that one more example just pisses people off even more. It's like a slow boil.

[Horseshoe]

. <--- still beating a dead horse.

[jp1979]

Porsche sells its name to a myriad of others.. I've seen Porsche vacuums, Porsche lighters, all sorts of stuff that's obviously not made by Porsche.

We go from talking about cars to you using lighters and vacuums... to try to prove your point?

And hey, that's great, if you get ripped off so often that you're at a point in life where you don't mind when someone bends you over and sticks it in your butt one more time, then that's wonderful.

So you study the manufacturer of every product you buy so that you are not buying something that is made by someone, then rebranded and sold for more money? Very doubtful. Also, making the assumption that I get ripped off and saying someone is sticking it up my butt is real classy bro, you know nothing about me buddy. The fact of the matter is, I really don't care if someone gets me for 50 cents if I would have bought a generic brand versus a name brand. Life is too short for that petty shit and not worth worrying about. If that is what your life is about, then have fun.

[Ropey]

We go from talking about cars to you using lighters and vacuums... to try to prove your point?

You're the one who brought up some Porsche analogy and then, when other people extended it, you failed to comprehend what they were saying and wanted people to stop talking about it. We're the confused ones.

So you study the manufacturer of every product you buy so that you are not buying something that is made by someone, then rebranded and sold for more money?

No, of course not, I just don't trash people who bring to my attention shady marketing. Nor do I excuse shady marketers because "everyone is doing it."

I have to admit, I don't even know how to address what you're talking about anymore. You just seem to be out of your intellectual league here. You brought up an analogy, some people gave you alternative ways of looking at your own analogy, and now you can't even seem to grasp what anyone is saying. It's kind of strange.

[jp1979]

You're the one who brought up some Porsche analogy and then, when other people extended it, you failed to comprehend what they were saying and wanted people to stop talking about it. We're the confused ones.

The post I quoted, and was responding to (with the one you quoted) we were talking about Porsche selling their name and rights to the 928 (a car, not a vacuum or a lighter) to a Vietnamese manufacturer to be sold under the same name, I said they would never do that. As far my analogy goes, extending it and taking it in a completely different irrelevant direction are two different things.

And FYI, the lighters, watches, etc... are Porsche Design, not Porsche AG but they do own it.

[Billb1960]

If this were a one-off from Cigars International, this thread wouldn't have expanded to 12 pages. However, I think that they, Thompson, the rest of the online cigar retailers, and perhaps the entire cigar industry are seen as such marketing hucksters that one more example just pisses people off even more. It's like a slow boil.

There is a significant portion, I daresay even a majority of the cigar smoking community which is always trying to find that magical cigar which smokes & tastes like a super premium but only costs a dollar or two. I'm pretty sure all of us have been there at some point in our cigar smoking progression. Hopefully most of us have learned by now that the old maxim, "you get what you pay for" applies to cigars as much as it does to any other endeavor.

However the large online vendors have learned that they can be very successful by marketing to that segment and they use "marketing speak" to do that. That's exactly what they did with the cigars which are the subject of this thread. I don't think they were being blatantly dishonest and the price point should be a very large clue that these weren't going to be Padron clones so I really don't have a problem with their tactics even though I don't think it benefits the cigar industry as a whole.

As far as the people who buy them, it's kind of like those Einsteins that fall for the Nigerian email scams. I really don't have a whole lot of sympathy for them. Do you really think you're going to get something for nothing?

[UncleFesterESQ]

There is a significant portion, I daresay even a majority of the cigar smoking community which is always trying to find that magical cigar which smokes & tastes like a super premium but only costs a dollar or two. I'm pretty sure all of us have been there at some point in our cigar smoking progression. Hopefully most of us have learned by now that the old maxim, "you get what you pay for" applies to cigars as much as it does to any other endeavor.

However the large online vendors have learned that they can be very successful by marketing to that segment and they use "marketing speak" to do that. That's exactly what they did with the cigars which are the subject of this thread. I don't think they were being blatantly dishonest and the price point should be a very large clue that these weren't going to be Padron clones so I really don't have a problem with their tactics even though I don't think it benefits the cigar industry as a whole.

As far as the people who buy them, it's kind of like those Einsteins that fall for the Nigerian email scams. I really don't have a whole lot of sympathy for them. Do you really think you're going to get something for nothing?

Game, set, match!

Although I will admit I'm still on the lookout for that $3 super premium!

[Skeat5353]

Are you arguing that the cigar Bryan cut apart was only really worth being sold for $0.10-0.20?

What should machine-made cigars go for?

That's my whole point. How much is 'non-premium' tobacco really worth? We don't know, because there is no such thing as 'non-premium' tobacco, there is no such thing as 'non-premium' cigars--according to the fraudulent marketing practices by these online retailers, there are only 'premium' cigars and 'premium' tobacco in the market. To an uninformed consumer, a 2-dollar shit missile is just as 'premium' as a Davidoff Nicaraguan, because that's how these sites market those cigars. The only difference is the price. One is an $18 'premium' cigar and the other, a $2 'premium' cigar.

That's how companies like CI, Thompson, J&R, and other large online retailers deceive people into buying garbage. They market each cigar, Davidoff Nicaraguan and 2-dollar shit rocket, under the same 'premium' umbrella. Even more pathetic is the fact that they are perfectly within their rights to do so and are not breaking any laws. Why? Because there is absolutely no Federal oversight protecting consumers from these fraudulent marketing practices. According to their marketing methods, whether I buy the $18 Davidoff or the $2 Dog Rocket, I am still buying a 'PREMIUM' cigar.

When I first started with cigars, I signed up at the old site and put a thread out there. Top Five Nic/Dom/Hon, or something like that. And the good people responded with over 200 posts!!! Thanks to all who participated!!! I am still buying and smoking cigars from that list. In fact, the kind people here helped me avoid all kinds of pitfalls out there for the new cigar smoker. And by 'pitfalls', I mean marketing traps like the kind CI and others practice. If it wasn't for the cigar lovers here, I would've been ordering garbage and smoking shite thinking the whole time it was 'premium.' And that is inherently wrong, in my humble and very confused opinion. It doesn't necessarily make it wrong.

Honestly, how much do you think that Blanco cigar is really worth? The price really only reflects the importation costs and that's it. I bet down in the Dominican, where it was manufactured, it's probably worth 5 cents, maybe even 10. So yes, I would say that cigar freshly rolled in the Dominican Republic probably costs no more than 25 cents. But that's just a guess. I don't know what's more disturbing: the value of the cigar itself, or the fact that it is being marketed here as a 'premium' cigar. They are both quite disturbing to me.