Brick & Mortar Philosophy

[Yarddog]

So, here comes I...and ignorant cigar fan who has discovered on-line purchasing a couple of years ago, and buys most of his sticks thataway. But...I also use the local B&M's for special, 'treat', ceegars, and would like to be able to use them to buy singles of some of the new releases. Mind you, I live in Southern California, where most ceegar stores seem to be all encompassing places for anything to be smoked, including hookah, cigarettes, vape, stogies, and the ever present 'head shop' stuff. And you'll usually find 'em in the ever-present strip malls scattered here and there. Most...but not all.

Now, I get why prices are mostly higher than MSRP in some of those places...rent is VERY high here in SoCal, and it seems like most commercial landlords would rather see space vacant and making nothing rather than lower the rent to a level where tenants can make money. It's not unusual to spend double or more on a ceegar than what I would spend on-line.

What I DO expect out of a B&M is excellent service. THAT is what to me, the consumer, is gonna keep me comin' in and comin' back. So here's the crux of my question...and there are actually two...and maybe somebody who owns, or has worked, in a B&M can edjumicate me a bit...

When I walk into a store, it's always handy for the guy behind the counter to be pretty schooled in the art of cigar smoking. I would like him or her to be able to qualify me...in other words, find out what my likes and dislikes are...and either tell me where the sticks are that I'm looking for, OR maybe make some suggestions. What I get from many B&M's...not all...is a surly attitude, like 'if you're not one of the regulars here, I have no time for ya'...or just plain iggerance...So, if I'm not gonna get the service I need, and the employee/owner doesn't appeal to my sense of adventure...maybe that's a poor analogy...why do I need to go there?

That's the first question I'd like to throw out there for discussion. The second issue is inventory. And primarily, where are all the newer releases? And what in the wholesale/retail model prevents local B&M's from keeping on top of things, procuring a small sample shipment of newer releases, talkin' them up a bit, and seeing if they're received well, or not? Or are the proprietors afraid that doing so will affect the sales of their 'bread and butter' inventory, maybe that inventory which produces higher profit margins than might be possible with selling the newer releases?

Is maybe one of the reasons that the distributors of new releases, including but not limited to 'boutique cigars', only willing to ship a certain minimum out to the retailers? Here's the scenario in my mind...I'm the vendor on the street...a couple of my customers have come in expressing interest in the latest and greatest, let's call it The Wise Owl Barnyard. So, I check into it, and want maybe a box or two of the vitola that's either specified by the customer, or a vitola that I knows sells well in my area. Is the response I'm gonna get, "sure, I understand that there's risk involved, but I'll ship you out what you want, do me a favor and push 'em a little bit so you can get a buzz going then get back with me and I'll ship more because there will be a demand developing". Or is it "nahhhhh...it ain't worth it to us to take that risk...either take twenty cases at 90% of MSRP or get down the road"?

Let's get real world here...it's only been in the last month or so that the Camacho American Barrel Aged has been showing up in local stores. And that's not a boutique stick. I go into stores and say, 'hey, about that Sobremesa?'...and I get the blank stare. Dude! I'm a consumer, I peruse the interweb, and I know what this cigar is! I'm not making money on ceegars! You are! And you don't know what it is, much less make any attempt to see if it will sell in your store?'

So, tell me, B&M owners/employees...when your passion becomes your business, do you slowly...maybe quickly...lost interest in your product? Is the Mighty Margin now become your raison d'etre? Do you not know that the juggernaut, the Mighty Interweb Giant Store, knows more about your products than you do, can sell it for less and easier? And that really, if you can't provide me the service or product I need, I don't need to budge from my computer screen to get what I want?

What am I missing here? What keeps these stores in business? And is it this way around the country, or just in the Living Hell That Is SoCal? (not all areas are bad...just the cities. They suck.)

Not your usual question, I know...I'll bet some good thinkin' goes into answering this one, and I hope to be able to connect the dots after reading the responses...

[Cool Breeze]

So, tell me, B&M owners/employees...when your passion becomes your business, do you slowly...maybe quickly...lost interest in your product?

I don't think that you necessarily lose interest in it, but there is no doubt that it becomes a job. Hobbies that turn into careers lose their luster to a degree. That doesn't always mean that they don't care about them at all.

For example, just last week I was sitting at the table of knowledge at my local shop, which is amazing by the way, having a stogie and talking to the shop manager. I mentioned this site and we talked about discussion forums for a while. He is not a member of any and when I mentioned him wanting to go home and not think about cigars his response was, "I'm here six days a week and all I think or talk about is pipes and cigars. When I leave the only cigar I want to think about is the one I'm smoking."

I totally get that.

However the difference between this place and what you're talking about is that the manager and all of the employees are not only extremely knowledgeable and up to date on the latest products but also very polite and quick to strike up a conversation with customers, newbies and experienced guys alike. Heck it wouldn't make any sense to be any other way. The goal of any business is to make money and the way you do that is be the best at what you do and treat people good. Seems elementary to me, but after all, I'm just a half smart country boy so what do I know? I'm sure those fancy Caleeforna folks know better than me.

[Demuths1770]

one of the BIGGEST issues that most B&Ms fight is shelf space. with all these new releases every year its hard to pick a cigar to get rid of to make space. i think another problem is the newer generation of cigar smokers are smoking these limited releases and new sticks and most cigar shops are established shops ran buy guys who love the Chohiba red dots, Monte Cristos, and Romeo n Juliets. not that this is a bad thing but i think a lot of what is driving the new cigars and brands we see is being driven by the internet and forums and cigar groups. also when i think of the CA market and how the prices are i think that most of the B&Ms there cater to people who just smoke because its a status thing not because they enjoy the flavors and relaxation of it. thats just my opinion from what i have heard.

[Bruck]

You raise good points. I've got a few B&Ms within reach, and most of them have excellent customer service and selection. But there's one in a "yuppie" area, near where I work, that utterly perplexes me. The guy who runs it knows nothing about his product, and doesn't seem all that interested in moving it. I try not to talk to him, for fear of knowing less than when I started. Must be a tax writeoff or money-laundering scheme

[omahaorange]

I have couple near me that I use. One has just a few selections, and it's what he likes. His primary business is vape and roll-your-own crowds. He's more than happy to order boxes for you, but his mark-up means he can't touch on-line pricing. There is no place to smoke.

Second place is about 15 minutes away. Same business model (vape and ryo) but a much better selection of cigars. Prices aren't that bad, but I never asked about special orders. Also, no place to smoke.

Third place is different. Cigar bar in the basement of an upscale restaurant. Nice place, good seating, in an old train station. The owner is a true coneusiuer. I believe at best he breaks even here, money is from the restaurant. He sponsors a monthly tasting, has a cigar rep, liquor and beer samples, and food, all for 10 bucks. Bar pricing is reasonable, Discounts boxes off msrp that puts them close to Internet prices. Owner is a real friendly guy, and is always willing to talk cigars. If it was a little closer I be there more often than just the events.

The difference between these people and us is, for us it's a passion, a hobby. For these guys, it's a livelihood. You gotta pay the bills first, so you stock what sells the most. In the first example, it's a mom and pop. Pop is into cigars, but the area is more into the other stuff. Second example is a small, local chain. Better selection of cigars, but the employees are simply cashiers, and bulk of the business is lottery, vapes, and ryo. Third place is actually a cigar place. Bar is set up for smoking, the owner is there and circulates freely, knows cigars, and is happy to teach. His main business though, is the restaurant.

While it's nice think anybody who sells cigars is as passionate about them as we are, in the end, it's all about profit and loss. While we may open a business based on something we love, in the end it has to be about the bottom line. That's what keeps the lights on and the refrigerator full.

[Yarddog]

Cool Breeze...the thing that strikes me about the reluctance of the shop owner not wanting to get on line on his own time is...hey...do it during work hours! I get that he wouldn't want to spend his home time worrying about business, but during the time where he's not waiting on people is a great time to keep current with the trends.

Good points are made about the brands that sell well versus the newer, more risky new blends. I'm hoping that one of the guys who are a boutique blend honcho weighs in to tell me that my model about introducing of newer blends blow, or whether I be onto something.

Keep those ideas flowing in, folks! Some grateful responses so far!

[greige matter]

I live in NE Pennsylvania and most cigars are sold in cigarette shops that have a few humidors filled with your basic main stream cigars. These are run by people that have no idea what makes a cigar a cigar. I seldom even go into one of these places.

I am lucky to be within a 30 minute ride of both Famous and Cigars Inter. I visit them mainly in the winter when weather forces me indoors. No lack of selection or cigar knowledge in either place.

[Demuths1770]

Good points are made about the brands that sell well versus the newer, more risky new blends. I'm hoping that one of the guys who are a boutique blend honcho weighs in to tell me that my model about introducing of newer blends blow, or whether I be onto something.

i dont think its so much that it is a risk it is more so where are they gonna put it. i go to my one local shop usually weekly sometimes bi weekly and usually get a chance to talk with the owner who is a younger guy that is really great and in on cigars. he has a awesome selection and a huge overhead that he moves regularly. he told me a few weeks ago the biggest challenge is going and finding what he is going to no longer stock in order to make room for these new releases especially with the inventory selection he has. he carries a lot of the boutique blends and gets the new cigars in every year so its hard for him to turn over. i honestly think the the way a store is ran and the inventory they stock has a lot to do with the owners age. i think the older owners are more stuck in there ways an also not up and up with technology. as far as a minimum order it all depends upon if they are going through wholesale or direct with the company and some boutique brands dont like to have a bunch of shops in one area selling there brand as well so they have a mileage range. i know my local shop owner was telling me about a brand (cant remember the name) that will only allow one store in a 50 mile radius to carry there brand

[FireRunner]

Operating a cigar store is expensive and very difficult. I am a Landlord, business owner and a property manager. I'm very experienced in all areas of business operations to real estate. Two major factors are location and rental rate. Location is key because if you're in a state that high tobacco tax it is near impossible to compete with online businesses. The second key to location is their proximity to customers who will visit store. Within Washington DC there are only a few cigar stores, however they do well because of location to customers who prefer not to maintain cigars. Rather, they want to purchase and smoke when the time comes.

Rental rate is extremely key since it is usually the highest expense for a business. So, it's a serious balancing act to select a location where a store will have enough customers to be profitable.

I'm lucky enough to have a great relationship with one of my local stores. However, most are not as fortunate. At the end of the day I still, for any industry of business, try to support location stores even if could get better prices online.

[Herf N Turf]

Wow! There are some really great, informative responses here and most are on the money.

I only have a couple things to add.

First, you're right about your right to good customer service. Just as long as you bear in mind that if you're in there during everyone's lunch hour, or right after everyone gets off work, it's not reasonable to expect, "excellent customer service", or a two hour indulgence of your fancies. The guy's gotta make a living and as was pointed out, it ain't easy. We're talking about an average ticket item of 8 bucks and you've got to sell a ton of 8 buck items to pay your rent. He's gotta make hay when he can, so if there's a line at the counter, don't try to take him away from it to answer detailed questions. Just common sense, really.

One thing that's not been mentioned, but sort of ties in with display space is the fact that many stores are "sponsored" on some level or another. Cigar distributors give out a lot of promotional items, events, merchandise enticements, etc., with the expectation (whether implicit, or not) of some exclusivity. Many retailers are "in bed" to some extent with certain makers/distributors and while it may be a "deal with the devil" in the long term, it is of great benefit to the retailer. My point is, it may or may not be in his best short term interest to carry a small number of limited releases, newest and coolest, boutique, or otherwise sticks. Not only does it cost him display space, but it might twist up the knickers of his main supplier. In other words, "don't poop where you sleep" lol.

I'm a huge fan and supporter of the B&M. In my opinion, they provide an invaluable and irreplaceable service to our community. They take the risk of stocking perishable items for our enjoyment and indulgence with very little, or no promise they'll sell. It's a little like selling fish, or produce. There's an expiration date, both in terms of durability as well as public interest. With so many "fly by night" cigar operations out there, who might be the hottest thing since running water today, but might be forgotten in a year, a retailer has to be very careful not to get seduced by the wrong product. Even with lots of product knowledge and market experience, everyone gets caught with their pants down from time to time.


B&M's allow me to go in and pick up 5-10 cigars I'm unfamiliar with, or might only want a few of in my collection. I don't have to make a box-style commitment and I also have the luxury of being able to SEE exactly how they're stored. Speaking of which, the B&M also has the luxury of storing their inventory much closer to where I like to smoke my cigars. Online retailers, for the most part, are forced to store stock much higher in RH than I can enjoy. They do so in order to ward off probable ill-effects of shipping and general transport. Cigars dry out pretty fast in the back of a brown van in July, so subjecting them to humidities of upwards of 75% is common place. Ever try to smoke a 75% RH cigar? Not fun.