Mo Smoke cigar lounge (Home cigar room)

[cion]

Hello everyone, I'm starting my cigar/lounge man cave. I'm bringing my thread from another place here, because I've been informed this is the place to be. I'm merging two threads into one. My questions regarding CFM for my room, and the thread I plan on putting info on the room build. Here it goes! ANY info or comments welcome!

The making of:

Mo Smoke Cigar Lounge - Home cigar room/Man cave

These are rough shots of how things look right now.
20150320_000442.jpg
The wood beam is pretty much where the wall will be put up. The room is going to be 15x14x8.

20150320_000452.jpg
Partial bathroom I will be keeping. Side door to my house.

20150320_000532.jpg
Just another angle. This wall and door hides a walk in closet roughly 3x5. This week starts demolition of this wall, and wall inside this closet opening up a little more space under the stairs.

20150320_000528.jpg
Closet again, and wall where my old diecast cars used to be, where I'll hang the TV.

I'm anxious to get started. I'm trying to figure out how I'm doing my ventilation system.

If you have any advice or suggestions please feel free.

Photos will come once a week. I'm hoping to have this up and smoking by the Mayweather fight...we'll see.

[cion]

Thanks guys! I'm up now 4:30 AM I'm so excited to get started. 8:30 AM the contractor will be ringing my bell LOL!!

Ok, This is the HVAC blueprint I came up with based on the advice I have got from various sources including this as well as other threads here and abroad. Tell me what you guys think.

HVAC blueprint.jpgHVAC blueprint.jpg

We're knocking down a couple of walls today, and possibly cutting the ceiling to see how we're running things above head. Last week we measured 13" above to play with, so we'll see. More pics coming!

[cion]

Thank you Quo155, please let me give you a little more info so you can possibly answer the question as proficiently as you can. Thank you BTW.

The home the room is being built is in North NJ so it gets cold in the winter. Its my recreation room. The space I'm using is approximately 270 sq feet.

Doing the calculation for CFM I was given a number of 300 cfm however I know I'll need more than that especially if I have up to 5 smokers.
I was thinking 1500-1700 cfm exhaust pulling from two ceiling vents straight out of the house. I'm separating the hvac of my house and this room (not using dampers). So I have a few questions:

1. Is 1500-1700 cfm overkill? I'm using a speed regulator to adjust output depending the amount of smokers.

2. If I'm using that amount of cfm on exhaust, for fresh air, what should I do?

● Use no force air return, and allow the air to be pulled in naturally from the exhaust fan pulling OUT the air? (From negative pressure)

● Buy a fan (what cfm?) for air intake to PULL fresh air in from outside?

● Should I buy a duct heater? - The room will have 2 baseboard heaters as well as the fake fireplace heater.

● I've seen photos of the exhaust and fresh air intake side by side on the outside of the house in others cigar room. Doesn't that defeat the purpose of a fresh air intake? Wouldn't the intake pull the cigar smoke from the exhaust right back in?

I was going to have my exhaust and fresh air intake on opposite sides of the house.

EXCFM
2015-03-19 16.44.56 copy.jpg

If you suggest both a fan to pull in fresh air AND a duct heater, will the heater warm the air as fast as the fan is pulling it in? Other words...how do you pair the two? (A intake fan and duct heater)

Lastly...Air conditioning.

I'm thinking of going portable AC and connecting it to the return duct for fresh air to the AC unit. I'm not sure about the best way to do AC on a small budget so if you guys have any suggestions let me know. There is no windows in or near the room.

Thanks!

Didn't mean to ask so many questions at once, but it's all HVAC related and I need to start my purchases ASAP. We're starting demolition on a couple of walls and ceiling this sunday.

[cion]

Re: CFM question
Quote Originally Posted by cion View Post
Thank you Quo155, please let me give you a little more info so you can possibly answer the question as proficiently as you can. Thank you BTW.

The home the room is being built is in North NJ so it gets cold in the winter. Its my recreation room. The space I'm using is approximately 270 sq feet.

Doing the calculation for CFM I was given a number of 300 cfm however I know I'll need more than that especially if I have up to 5 smokers.
I was thinking 1500-1700 cfm exhaust pulling from two ceiling vents straight out of the house. I'm separating the hvac of my house and this room (not using dampers). So I have a few questions:

1. Is 1500-1700 cfm overkill? I'm using a speed regulator to adjust output depending the amount of smokers.

2. If I'm using that amount of cfm on exhaust, for fresh air, what should I do?

● Use no force air return, and allow the air to be pulled in naturally from the exhaust fan pulling OUT the air? (From negative pressure)

● Buy a fan (what cfm?) for air intake to PULL fresh air in from outside?

● Should I buy a duct heater? - The room will have 2 baseboard heaters as well as the fake fireplace heater.

● I've seen photos of the exhaust and fresh air intake side by side on the outside of the house in others cigar room. Doesn't that defeat the purpose of a fresh air intake? Wouldn't the intake pull the cigar smoke from the exhaust right back in?

I was going to have my exhaust and fresh air intake on opposite sides of the house.

EX 2015-03-19 16.44.56 copy.jpg

If you suggest both a fan to pull in fresh air AND a duct heater, will the heater warm the air as fast as the fan is pulling it in? Other words...how do you pair the two? (A intake fan and duct heater)

Lastly...Air conditioning.

I'm thinking of going portable AC and connecting it to the return duct for fresh air to the AC unit. I'm not sure about the best way to do AC on a small budget so if you guys have any suggestions let me know. There is no windows in or near the room.

Thanks!

Didn't mean to ask so many questions at once, but it's all HVAC related and I need to start my purchases ASAP. We're starting demolition on a couple of walls and ceiling this sunday.

Quote from Quo155

Hey Cion! For your room size and location, I'd shoot for 700cfm exhaust, minimum.

1. The 1500+ really is overkill, IMHO and I'd keep it between 700cfm and 900cfm...as long as the number is more than whatever you decide to feed into the room. A speed regulator is a great idea!

2. 675cfm is about right for fresh air, as long as the number is less than your exhaust. It doesn't sound like you'll need a duct heater as you'll have plenty from other sources. If you're not supplying the room from your main system, then I would use a fan to pull from the outside, in...672cfm.

Portable AC's can work in your area (not here where I live!) and you can get a decent EdgeStar unit that does not require a window, you can install it with the supplied ducts to a wall with vents. It pulls air from the outside and from the inside. They're not real efficient at cooling down here but reviews say they work in your area. They are also a great dehumidifier, as a bonus...if even needed where you are. They run around $500-$600.

Whatever route you decide to go, I hope this info helps some...

[cion]

Re: CFM question
Quote Originally Posted by quo155 View Post

Hey Cion! For your room size and location, I'd shoot for 700cfm exhaust, minimum.

1. The 1500+ really is overkill, IMHO and I'd keep it between 700cfm and 900cfm...as long as the number is more than whatever you decide to feed into the room. A speed regulator is a great idea!

2. 675cfm is about right for fresh air, as long as the number is less than your exhaust. It doesn't sound like you'll need a duct heater as you'll have plenty from other sources. If you're not supplying the room from your main system, then I would use a fan to pull from the outside, in...672cfm.

Portable AC's can work in your area (not here where I live!) and you can get a decent EdgeStar unit that does not require a window, you can install it with the supplied ducts to a wall with vents. It pulls air from the outside and from the inside. They're not real efficient at cooling down here but reviews say they work in your area. They are also a great dehumidifier, as a bonus...if even needed where you are. They run around $500-$600.

Whatever route you decide to go, I hope this info helps some...

New Question - Cion

Hello Tommy thanks for your input, so you say you would go for a MINIMUM off 700CFM but 1,500 CFM is overkill. What do you think would be that magic number then? I'm looking at three ultra quiet 280CFM fans, totalling 840. Do you think that would DEFINITELY do it or should I go 1000CFM?

So you believe I should buy a fan to PULL air back into the room, but keep it below the CFM going out...

So, you don't believe just having an open vent to outside would be enough with the exhaust pulling air out? I thought it the exhaust fan would cause a negative pressure, and would pull air from anywhere it can get it...that would be that open direct vent...wouldn't it?

Tommy you didn't answer this...I'm curious to your thoughts (below)

I've seen photos of the exhaust and fresh air intake side by side on the outside of the house in others cigar room. Doesn't that defeat the purpose of a fresh air intake? Wouldn't the intake pull the cigar smoke from the exhaust right back in? (photo below)

CFM 2015-03-19 16.44.56 copy.jpg

You said not to buy a duct heater because you believe I would have sufficient heat with the baseboards and electric fire place, but you don't think the room would get cold in this up north 10-20 degree winters air blowing directly into the room?

I'm sorry If I'm asking the same questions or questioning certain things you answered, I just want to be sure, and I want to order everything today.

Thanks Tommy I really appreciate your opinion/facts!

[cion]

Re: CFM question
I may be late at answering (& if I am, I'm sorry!)...

Quote Originally Posted by cion View Post

Hello Tommy thanks for your input, so you say you would go for a MINIMUM off 700CFM but 1,500 CFM is overkill. What do you think would be that magic number then? I'm looking at three ultra quiet 280CFM fans, totalling 840. Do you think that would DEFINITELY do it or should I go 1000CFM?

I think the 840cfm will work perfectly, go for it!

Quote Originally Posted by cion View Post

So you believe I should buy a fan to PULL air back into the room, but keep it below the CFM going out...

Quote Originally Posted by cion View Post

So, you don't believe just having an open vent to outside would be enough with the exhaust pulling air out? I thought it the exhaust fan would cause a negative pressure, and would pull air from anywhere it can get it...that would be that open direct vent...wouldn't it?

Quote Originally Posted by cion View Post

You said not to buy a duct heater because you believe I would have sufficient heat with the baseboards and electric fire place, but you don't think the room would get cold in this up north 10-20 degree winters air blowing directly into the room?

Yes...I did, but I've not sat and looked over this with my engineering hat as I should have...I would pull fresh air in, BUT...you're right in that it would be cold air during Winter. If you have air that is able to come into the room from other areas, under door(s), etc...in which I am sure you do, then you may not need the outside to inside air fan. Thus, not needing a duct heater. If you do pull in outside air, just to have it as an option (it really helps "flush" out the room quicker...then I'd recommend the duct heater.

Quote Originally Posted by cion View Post

Tommy you didn't answer this...I'm curious to your thoughts (below)

I've seen photos of the exhaust and fresh air intake side by side on the outside of the house in others cigar room. Doesn't that defeat the purpose of a fresh air intake? Wouldn't the intake pull the cigar smoke from the exhaust right back in? (photo below)

You are correct and I would never recommend the two be close! If you can put on different sides of the room (if two exterior walls), then please do...or at the least, try and separate as much as possible. But, this will only apply if you are bringing in outside air.

Quote Originally Posted by cion View Post

I'm sorry If I'm asking the same questions or questioning certain things you answered, I just want to be sure, and I want to order everything today.

You are fine, ask away. However, it looks like you may have already ordered stuff and if so, I am sorry for my delay in getting back to you. I don't frequent this forum anymore and I only log in to see if you've needed anything else! I just hope I was able to help you in some way...and not confuse you!

-Tommy

[cion]

Quote Originally Posted by cion View Post

Ok, This is the HVAC blueprint I came up with based on the advice I have got from various sources including this as well as other threads here and abroad. Tell me what you guys think. I'm planning on ordering the various fans etc. later today so all input would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!

HVAC blueprint.jpg

Great drawing and it looks like you've got it figured out. I know the task can be challenging and such, but it will be so worth it in the end!

[cion]

Quote Originally Posted by quo155 View Post

Great drawing and it looks like you've got it figured out. I know the task can be challenging and such, but it will be so worth it in the end!
Thank you so much Tommy! (When ever you see this lol)

No you weren't late. I decided to wait a few days to get a response or two. I didn't want to get stuff and it wasn't correct. However between you and my carpenter okaying this setup I'm going to order the fans. Thank you again for answering all of my questions especially the one concerning the exhaust and intake being so close. I'm putting the exhaust and intake on separate sides of the house. The intake will go on the side of my house with windows and the exhaust will go to the side without windows (so my wife and tenant doesn't have to smell smoke when they have their windows open.) Thanks again Tom!

[nick6659]

This is awesome! Can't wait to see the progress and end result! Good luck!

[quo155]

Welcome Cion and I too am looking forward to seeing this project pan out...and soon, you'll be laid back in an easy chair, puffing away!

I'm glad you made it over here and that you placed this thread here.