Tips, Advice, & Suggestions Sought

[rodwha]

I've begun my fourth rolling session (2 at a time) and find I'm doing better but still having issues. I felt as though rolling the filler withing the filler leaves has helped a fair amount in producing a more even roll, but the foot ends are always splayed. I figured I'd begin a bit further back on the binder leaf (maybe an inch or so) thinking it would give a bit of leaf to help roll tighter, but I'm now thinking that I'll go back twice that and probably beginning on these with the wrapper in hopes I can create a better foot.

What are you fellas who are producing nice looking sticks doing?

I'm also still having issues creating a nice head for my smokes. Snugging them up tightly in the mold feels as though it's helping but I'd prefer it beginning better. I've been laying the leaves stem to tip back and forth and cutting that in half and placing the straight sides along each other for the head. I'm then cutting the stranglers from the foot end and using that to help fill in the foot better, which seems to be working fairly well.

What are you guys doing?

I'm guessing it's just going to take a bit more experience before I can feel whether or not the filler is adequate for the ring size I'm attempting to achieve. My results vary each time despite using the same number of leaves.

[rodwha]

Tried my hand at another cigarillo rolling scraps into a small piece that was big enough to sort of roll it in and then used a binder and wrapper with no cap.

https://s17.postimg.org/j71jno74v/IMG_3897.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/pkqmqxc0r/)

The wrapper was a little bit dry and didn't do quite as well but it still seems pretty fair for what it is.

[rodwha]

In the DVD the fella cuts just one cap. I know that on a Cohiba they use three. I began using two. What's the deal with that?

[Marc L]

I've begun my fourth rolling session (2 at a time) and find I'm doing better but still having issues. I felt as though rolling the filler withing the filler leaves has helped a fair amount in producing a more even roll, but the foot ends are always splayed. I figured I'd begin a bit further back on the binder leaf (maybe an inch or so) thinking it would give a bit of leaf to help roll tighter, but I'm now thinking that I'll go back twice that and probably beginning on these with the wrapper in hopes I can create a better foot.

Besides getting an even pack, I'm not sure what you mean by "splayed" but, after googling it I'm thinking your looking forward to getting you foot like a commercial stick.
You might remember me mentioning that a softer bunch at assembly will firm up wen left to dry. typically, the foot area will be built past where it will be tuck cut. you will notice a mold that is full will have tobacco sticking out of the bottom. after a pressing they will take there knife and slice it flush with the molds edge.
you could trim the leaf down to size before you bunch. this also eliminates the scrap developed with tuck cutting.


I'm also still having issues creating a nice head for my smokes. Snugging them up tightly in the mold feels as though it's helping but I'd prefer it beginning better. I've been laying the leaves stem to tip back and forth and cutting that in half and placing the straight sides along each other for the head. I'm then cutting the stranglers from the foot end and using that to help fill in the foot better, which seems to be working fairly well.

About a round head, build past it so it can be tuck cut, ( now you can use almost anything here because the last bit wont be smoked. also, in this area be sure to be using enough binding for stability. you would take some end/scrap binder/wrapper pieces and lay them down in the shoulder/head area to do this. also, imagine coming up into the shoulder/head area and, lacking density, following through with the RG size to close with a dab of glue, tuck cut, then, open it up to fill in the density and re-close. ) then trim down the binder and filler at a 45˚ angle with scissors or, your knife against the board.
This does two things. It exposes the filler to uniform draw across and, keeps us from squishing the filler into the rounded area which could inhibit the draw.
Something I like to try to do is set draw in the shoulder. I found that the optimal burn density is less then the optimal draw density.


I'm guessing it's just going to take a bit more experience before I can feel whether or not the filler is adequate for the ring size I'm attempting to achieve. My results vary each time despite using the same number of leaves.

If the leaves were the same, it would be the same. that's where sorting comes in. that can get arduous. think build longer. You can do this.

[Marc L]

Tried my hand at another cigarillo rolling scraps into a small piece that was big enough to sort of roll it in and then used a binder and wrapper with no cap.

https://s17.postimg.org/j71jno74v/IMG_3897.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/pkqmqxc0r/)

The wrapper was a little bit dry and didn't do quite as well but it still seems pretty fair for what it is.

It seems like your wrappers don't have very much stretch to them?

[Marc L]

In the DVD the fella cuts just one cap. I know that on a Cohiba they use three. I began using two. What's the deal with that?

Ah, triple cap you say? it is really two. the first one is what they call a flag shaped like a tier drop and, it goes around twice so you can see it and, the third .. well you know.

[rodwha]

Ah, triple cap you say? it is really two. the first one is what they call a flag shaped like a tier drop and, it goes around twice so you can see it and, the third .. well you know.

How many caps do you attach and why?

[Marc L]

I try to keep the wrapper all in one piece with a Dominican capping first. notice how he looks ahead for angle placement to where he goes to make the first cut for the set up.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xr3ZxhNKMRE

.. Something I'd like you to take notice to. Take a look at a couple of commercial sticks. You'll notice that the wrapper goes around three times in most cases. Limiting the booking that occurs by using to many binders and/or going around to many times, ( to much overlapping ) prevents tunneling.

Then there's this from blisscigarco (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKQPvIbslAFFDYDGi-EivRQ/videos).

https://i.imgur.com/fScSRJy.jpg

[Marc L]

If it tears or, I get the cigar angle placement off, I'll do a triple cap.

Its always nice to have a supervisor like Hamlet does here.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qg3BummGzr0

[rodwha]

I try to keep the wrapper all in one piece with a Dominican capping first. notice how he looks ahead for angle placement to where he goes to make the first cut for the set up.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xr3ZxhNKMRE

.. Something I'd like you to take notice to. Take a look at a couple of commercial sticks. You'll notice that the wrapper goes around three times in most cases. Limiting the booking that occurs by using to many binders and/or going around to many times, ( to much overlapping ) prevents tunneling.

Then there's this from blisscigarco (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKQPvIbslAFFDYDGi-EivRQ/videos).

https://i.imgur.com/fScSRJy.jpg

Now that's just showing off! 😁

Talk about a bit of experience as to where to especially so nimbly and quickly!

[Marc L]

yeah, I loved when he posted that.. good times!

[Bruck]

My two cents which is about what it's worth:

I don't do caps generally. I have in the past and have been able to make halfway decent looking ones, but I found that I was putting more effort into the cap than into the wrapping, only to cut it off later. So my cigars are essentially cylindrical, open on both ends. I know it's not "professional looking," but I'm not trying to outdo the Cuban and Dominican experts - I'm just focused on making good tasting and burning (and inexpensive) cigars. My moochers don't seem to mind :)

On the construction side of things, the cap is useful for keeping the cigar from unraveling, but I compensate by using sufficient glue along the outer edge of the wrapper.

Re the splayed foot - I'm not totally sure what you're getting at but I think you're discovering that in the bunching process it's not possible to have a consistent density all the way to either end. What I try to do is make the consistent part of the filler bunch be at least as long as the intended cigar length, assuming the thinner ends are going to be lopped. I'll bind it that way, and even wrap it that way, then cut the cigar to length afterwards. Does that make sense?

For getting the head right (the head is the part you put into your head), if I'm using a proper mold with a rounded end, I'll clip the bound bunch just beyond where is starts to get more sparse, then jam that end into the rounded part of the mold.

Disclaimer: the above is not what professionals or even competent amateurs do :)

[Marc L]

thats really solid. that alot like Michael Stewart - YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/stewmuse/videos

[Sir Lancerolot]

I don't do caps generally. I have in the past and have been able to make halfway decent looking ones, but I found that I was putting more effort into the cap than into the wrapping, only to cut it off later. So my cigars are essentially cylindrical, open on both ends. I know it's not "professional looking," but I'm not trying to outdo the Cuban and Dominican experts - I'm just focused on making good tasting and burning (and inexpensive) cigars. My moochers don't seem to mind :)

Disclaimer: the above is not what professionals or even competent amateurs do :)

I don't do caps, either, except when I make a mistake and don't leave enough wrapper to make a pigtail. I aim to finish the roll with a long tag of wrapper that I just twist until it curls on itself and makes a pigtail. I then tuck the upper length of the pigtail into the bottom of the first curl so it locks in place without tying. Bad description, I'm afraid - sorry. I'll try to get a picture sometime, but no promises. :-)

Oh, and as far as what pros and competent amateurs don't do - I lightly fold/roll each of my filler leaves basically in the "en tubado" method. Only I do one at a time, on my cutting board, and then lay them folded under my chaveta until all have been folded (rolled). Then I pick them all up, arrange them with the ligero at the center, and roll them in the binder. I'm just not coordinated enough, nor interested enough in developing the coordination, to do the whole en tubado process in my hand.

I've come to the conclusion that it works best for me to cut the leaves to length first (which I think Bruck suggested elsewhere), and then to evenly "fit in" any scraps. I just lay the scraps on top of each full-length leaf, and roll them inside when I make make my tubes.

[rodwha]

Unfortunately I trashed many of my cigar picks saving the one showing all but the first two, which showcases best what I mean by a splayed foot. In essence I was having issues with the foot being a fair bit larger in diameter but also just looking crazy like an anemone. I seemed to have better figured it out in that my sticks are coming out more uniform and even. I had been attempting to get the crazy feet back into order by rolling the wrapper there purposely trying to get it under control but failing. It's not quite the issue now.

Does anyone have a source for a free video upload service that I can post here a video? I don't recall what I used years back, but my relatively short black powder paper cartridge video had to be broken into 3 parts about 30 seconds each. I'd prefer to be able to post a link or whatnot containing the whole process of my rolling for critique.

I'm down to one whole wrapper and binder leaf along with some sizeable scraps, some of which look to be able to create a Corona sized smoke. After that I'm eyeing the Maduro Connecticut 2 lb combo from LeafOnly (LOVE a Maduro!).

I've been using various Boveda packs and other various humidification packs to keep my leaves good. It seems some don't work well for long. Most are 69% RH but I'm thinking of ordering a 4 pack of 60g 72% Boveda packs. What do you keep your leaves at? I'm thinking I'll weed through the packs I have by placing one at a time in a container so as to toss any that don't work.

[Sir Lancerolot]

Does anyone have a source for a free video upload service that I can post here a video?

I'm down to one whole wrapper and binder leaf along with some sizeable scraps, some of which look to be able to create a Corona sized smoke. After that I'm eyeing the Maduro Connecticut 2 lb combo from LeafOnly (LOVE a Maduro!).

What do you keep your leaves at?

I upload videos to YouTube and link them here. There may be a better choice, but YouTube works and I'm too lazy to figure anything else out. :-)

That Connecticut maduro is a pretty tasty wrapper. I'm a maduro fan, but I generally only buy Brazilian maduros when I buy cigars - they're the most maduro-y to me. But this blend tastes pretty danged close:

1 Dominican volado
1 Nicaraguan ligero
1 Dominican ligero
3 Brazilian Habano viso
Colombian binder
Connecticut maduro wrapper

I asked about Brazilian maduro wrapper at Leaf Only a couple of years ago, and they could only get bales. I didn't need a bale. However, I see they now have not one, but TWO Brazilian wrappers available by the pound. I may have to give that a shot.

I keep my leaf the same as my cigars - 65%

[rodwha]

I noticed that the Maduro CT combo uses 2 different kinds of wrapper as it shows 1/4 lb CT 1DW Maduro and 1/4 lb Premium Shade under wrappers, along with 1/2 lb CT LS Broadleaf binder and 1 lb of CT filler (unknown type as I didn't see it in their "by the pound" offerings as such.

So what's the deal with this wrapper situation???

I'll have to keep the Brazilian Maduro in mind. Thanks! Happen to know of an inexpensive commercial rolled smoke using it? Nothing full flavor...

[Emperor Zurg]

1 Dominican volado
1 Nicaraguan ligero
1 Dominican ligero
3 Brazilian Habano viso
Colombian binder
Connecticut maduro wrapper


Are you sure this isn't the blend for the Guten Cala Nach Assin?

[rodwha]

I have two sizes of Boveda packs. One is maybe 1.5 X 1.5" and the other is maybe something like 4x 4" or so. I'm clueless as to which these are. Looking on Amazon I see 8 and 60 gram packs. I figured the 60's are about what I'd want to keep up to a pound of leaves nicely. What say you?

[Marc L]

...

Does anyone have a source for a free video upload service that I can post here a video? I don't recall what I used years back, but my relatively short black powder paper cartridge video had to be broken into 3 parts about 30 seconds each. I'd prefer to be able to post a link or whatnot containing the whole process of my rolling for critique.
...

Use youtube its a snap.

[Marc L]

I have two sizes of Boveda packs. One is maybe 1.5 X 1.5" and the other is maybe something like 4x 4" or so. I'm clueless as to which these are. Looking on Amazon I see 8 and 60 gram packs. I figured the 60's are about what I'd want to keep up to a pound of leaves nicely. What say you?

The size area recommendation seems to be large humi for that size but, whats nice is that they are two way humidification. It makes most sense to me to use them on finished cigars. I like the more hands on approach of doing it by feel giving that there are variant needs in preparing leaf.

[rodwha]

The size area recommendation seems to be large humi for that size but, whats nice is that they are two way humidification. It makes most sense to me to use them on finished cigars. I like the more hands on approach of doing it by feel giving that there are variant needs in preparing leaf.

So what would you use to keep your leaves moist if you have no room in a humidor?

The 8 gram packs come 10 to a pack and I wondered about using 2-3 in a 1/4-1/2 lb bag and 4 in a pound.

[Marc L]

So what would you use to keep your leaves moist if you have no room in a humidor?

The 8 gram packs come 10 to a pack and I wondered about using 2-3 in a 1/4-1/2 lb bag and 4 in a pound.

Leaves out of the bag get sorted and misted directly on planks of wood 14 by 33 in.

Most fillers don't need further ammonia aeration so, the idea is to get the wrinkles out and brought down to a storage case which is maybe a little dry for rolling. the whole lot will get stacked and put into 2.5 gal zip-locks and then into kitchen bags until I'll go to use it. these bags go in huge tubs. I will keep checking to make sure the case stays right.

Rolling prep I use 9.4 L tubs. I'll spray the inside to maintain humidity.
Its all by feel.

[Sir Lancerolot]

Are you sure this isn't the blend for the Guten Cala Nach Assin?Ha! Nice try! Did you really think I would give up the secret formula?

Sent from my LG-TP450 using Tapatalk

[Sir Lancerolot]

I noticed that the Maduro CT combo uses 2 different kinds of wrapper as it shows 1/4 lb CT 1DW Maduro and 1/4 lb Premium Shade under wrappers, along with 1/2 lb CT LS Broadleaf binder and 1 lb of CT filler (unknown type as I didn't see it in their "by the pound" offerings as such.

So what's the deal with this wrapper situation???

I'll have to keep the Brazilian Maduro in mind. Thanks! Happen to know of an inexpensive commercial rolled smoke using it? Nothing full flavor...Famous Smoke's final blend is a good budget example. CAO Brazilia might be a little truer to the flavor standard, but costs a little more as well.

Sent from my LG-TP450 using Tapatalk

[Emperor Zurg]

Ha! Nice try! Did you really think I would give up the secret formula?

Sent from my LG-TP450 using Tapatalk
Well even if you did it's not like any of us could cultivate tobacco on Ganymede and have it tended by Klingons who used to encircle uranus.

[rodwha]

Leaves out of the bag get sorted and misted directly on planks of wood 14 by 33 in.

Most fillers don't need further ammonia aeration so, the idea is to get the wrinkles out and brought down to a storage case which is maybe a little dry for rolling. the whole lot will get stacked and put into 2.5 gal zip-locks and then into kitchen bags until I'll go to use it. these bags go in huge tubs. I will keep checking to make sure the case stays right.

Rolling prep I use 9.4 L tubs. I'll spray the inside to maintain humidity.
Its all by feel.

I must admit I'm at a bit of a loss concerning most of that.

[Marc L]

I must admit I'm at a bit of a loss concerning most of that.

Your killing me here. your kidding somewhat right?

[rodwha]

Well, yes and no. I had never heard of ammonia aeration. I Googled it and didn't find a direct answer I believe I understand. I had wondered about the smell I sometimes noticed with some of the leaves I had. I didn't know I'd want to let them aerate.

I also didn't know anyone worked with the filler leaves to remove wrinkles.

I am a bit lost as to misting the leaves and storing them in ziplock bags. I had noticed the Boveda pack I had in with my binder leaves wasn't working well so I decided to moisten a paper towel with distilled water while I worked to rehydrate the packs. A few days later and I had a little bit of mold on the ends of the leaves. I suppose it seems harder to keep a proper balance without having issues like that, especially if they sit for a while before use.

Your 9.4L tub gets misted prior to setting what you intend to use into it, and that keeps them good for the present time?

I've just kept my leaves in the bags they came in dropping old Boveda packs I rehydrated into them, and those were dropped in a paper sack and left in my fermentation chamber that's set to 65*.

[Sir Lancerolot]

Well even if you did it's not like any of us could cultivate tobacco on Ganymede and have it tended by Klingons who used to encircle uranus.

It's actually easier than you might think ...

[Marc L]

Well, yes and no. I had never heard of ammonia aeration. I Googled it and didn't find a direct answer I believe I understand. I had wondered about the smell I sometimes noticed with some of the leaves I had. I didn't know I'd want to let them aerate.

Most filler wont need it. however, binder and wrapper are given less fermentation for the manufacture to do because of the degrading nature of fermentation.


I also didn't know anyone worked with the filler leaves to remove wrinkles.

"( flatten because you'll want to make sure there are no crinkly hard bits so you can fully control your assembly for optimum draw and burn )"


I am a bit lost as to misting the leaves and storing them in ziplock bags. I had noticed the Boveda pack I had in with my binder leaves wasn't working well so I decided to moisten a paper towel with distilled water while I worked to rehydrate the packs. A few days later and I had a little bit of mold on the ends of the leaves. I suppose it seems harder to keep a proper balance without having issues like that, especially if they sit for a while before use.

Keep in mind I'm opening 1 lb bags at a time. dry leaf can go without maintenance but the higher the case, the more you'll want to watch it. It can mold and degrade to dust.


Your 9.4L tub gets misted prior to setting what you intend to use into it, and that keeps them good for the present time?

Yes but they are going to get assembled soon. what's good about the tubs is that I can stop, close the tubs and, do something else, come back to it without losing any case.


I've just kept my leaves in the bags they came in dropping old Boveda packs I rehydrated into them, and those were dropped in a paper sack and left in my fermentation chamber that's set to 65*.

Is that 65˚ degrees or, 65 RH?

[rodwha]

65* F

It's a converted 7 cu ft chest freezer for fermenting beer. Figure the temp is about perfect for keeping cigars, whiskey, and my beer grains which don't really need to be kept cool anyway.

[Marc L]

Cigar Tuck Cutter Star Cutting Blade $29.85


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Miller-Dubrul-And-Peters-Cigar-Cutter-Parts-Star-Cutting-Blade-/192461924804?_trksid=p2385738.m4383.l4275.c10


https://i.imgur.com/ksnohsd.png




Cigar Tuck Cutter $112.90


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Antique-Cast-Iron-Cigar-Cutter-Collector-Quality/312069788355?_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIM.MBE&ao=1&asc=20160908110712&meid=7566d474acda48a19b7ba642a74add68&pid=100677&rk=6&rkt=7&sd=192461924804&itm=312069788355&_trksid=p2385738.c100677.m4598 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Antique-Cast-Iron-Cigar-Cutter-Collector-Quality/312069788355?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.M BE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908110712%26meid%3D7566d4 74acda48a19b7ba642a74add68%26pid%3D100677%26rk%3D6 %26rkt%3D7%26sd%3D192461924804%26itm%3D31206978835 5&_trksid=p2385738.c100677.m4598)


https://i.imgur.com/sXIPwBu.png

[rodwha]

Though pretty cool and I do prefer to do things in a proper fashion I’ll just be using one of my guillotine cutters for the time being. I generally only use a punch so it helps to keep the dust from accumulating.