A Few Questions

[rodwha]

I received a rolling starter kit for Christmas. I'm pretty excited about getting into this! I'm looking around and would like to get a better understanding of what I'm seeing and will be doing.

First of all my Leaf Only kit came with powdered glue to hydrate. In the video it's put in a large plastic container. If I'm only rolling once in a while do I want to hydrate all of it? Does it keep well long term?

I intend on the bulk of my cigars being Coronas and Lonsdales (~44-48 ring) and maybe 5-5.5" and 6.5-7.5". How far does a pound of filler go? And what of the wrapper/binder leaves?

How big of a cutting board will I be wanting to find?

Watching the dude in the video using his finger to spread the glue made me wonder if a small paint brush would be better.

The mold block that came with my kit seems to be a 48x5. In the video he claimed the length wasn't an issue, that it will make longer smokes just fine. As the time involved seems a bit lengthy I'm considering another mold or so. As I'll also want to make some longer smokes would be better to have the molds the proper length?

Anyone making cigarillos with the scraps? I like short smokes for those times when time is short. Figure I'll be making some ~32x4.

[Marc L]

I'm pretty excited for you. its all up to you how far you want to go. know that you can do it as long as your interest is there.

I believe they use gum arabic or bermocoll 320. I like gum tragacanth (https://www.bakedeco.com/detail.asp?id=6196&categoryid=0) myself. no matter what is used, you will want to refrigerate it at the use consistency witch is pretty wet. like anything given the high enough humidity and temperature, it will go bad. I will mix powder 1 to 8 parts to a paste or like a polish consistency one fluid ounce at a time. 1/2 teaspoon of powder does it. I will double boil it to heat it and refrigerate before use. pulling out just enough for use. it can be microwaved a few seconds at a time stirring in between. it will bubble over in about 5 seconds. do it 3 times. it will keep in the frig.

This link shows size to weight standards. .. https://www.cubancigarwebsite.com/cigar/officialweights

A standard board is 13 by 9 inches.

The glue application shown in the video, for me, is to wet. its sloppy. I want it to loose its tack in less then a minute. with the thicker glue it can be done. using your finger is done to better manipulate the capping. learn to do it off the board. know that technique improvement will come in time. your starting out. allow yourself to learn from your mistakes. that is where most of your learning will come from. you are close to bobalu cigar in Austin which may still have a $2000 class but, you can do this like the rest of us did.

Not everyone uses molds. Paper strips can be used. If your anything like me, you'll want all mold sizes. this is what a real mold looks like and how they fit together.

http://i.imgur.com/rsDI3yk.jpg

Cigarillos can be made more easily with a rolling machine.

[rodwha]

Marc L
I'll likely get as deep in it as frugally possible. $2K is a bit much for a class. I'll be more than happy smoking some squiggly sticks for a bit.

So a 1/2 tsp mixed 1:6 makes about an ounce? And that's enough to create several sticks or that's plenty to make at one time? The way I'm understanding your method is to create plenty of glue keeping it in the fridge until use and warming it up when ready.

So it's better to spread the glue with a finger?

I'll most certainly want several different mold sizes, though I prefer gauges under 50 as I'm not a big guy and don't quite care for a huge stick hanging from my mouth unless it's box pressed.

[Marc L]

The other thing is bobalu has rollers in house so you'd be able to check it out first hand. $2k gets you 5 full days I believe but they are said to run a Saturday afternoon thing for $30 again.

about the glue comment, I feel like your testing me if I'm paying attention so, I'll let you re-read it and correct your self first.

you'll notice by watching why using a finger is what you'll eventually be doing.

Molds are about $100 but, can be had for less with some rarity. we can get to box pressing.

[rodwha]

I've been by Bobalu's downtown store. I like their Sumatran Corona and get one each time I go by now.

No test. Just wanted to make sure I understood. I see I didn't recall the ratio correctly.

These are the leaves that came in my kit and I'm curious what I should expect as far as the strength. Medium?

https://s17.postimg.org/u7hdvvxhb/IMG_3858.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/gdt16u4vv/)

[Marc L]

Sweet! they looked to be 30 or so minutes away from you. Did they have a roller there? they used to have a live stream there but, the one in there factory is the only one that has been on for a while now.

no worries.. I might fool around time to time. most don't heat it through as for as I can tell. I do it to help get the lumps out a little. I just wanted to make sure your keeping it cool after you add water. I really just pull out the smallest amount at a time. a little dab. I like to use a lid taped down so I can control how much I use.

http://i.imgur.com/PnZpuws.jpg

As far as the strength, they say in there description mild but, that will depend on what you put in there. they don't say how much criollo is in there but, you might want to sort through there and start getting a sense of doing that. When you start getting pounds at a time, you'll want to build a sense of some differences. typically, there be a mix of filler (seco/viso/ligero) in most given pounds named designation. it is a lot to ask IMO, to do the final sorting for us. not to mention expensive..

[Marc L]

There should be some studying coming your way so don't be shy. Go ahead and search cigar making forums and start reading up and I will help when you want.

[rodwha]

There has usually been a roller working when I've stopped in. I know the ole lady and girl don't care so I don't watch long.

I'll be looking for some tiny Tupperware to keep glue in. Something I can microwave. Initially I was thinking I could use a tin for percussion caps but it's metal.

I still need to get a cutting board and I figure I'll get a pizza cutter.

I also need to go check on the filler. It was a bit dry so I dampened a paper towel with distilled water hoping to rehydrate it better.

Do you have any recommendations on a hand rolling forum?

[Marc L]

I wish they would turn the cam on at 6th street myself but, this is the link if you haven't seen it yet. it cuts out but, if you you want the frame link I have it. Cigar Roller Cam "LIVE" - Live Cuban Roller Cam - live cigar rollers (http://www.bobalu.com/cigar-roller-cam-live)

I have one of those mini hotel glass jelly jars I use. that glue boils up really fast once it gets going so, use maybe a rocks glass so you can see it. the lumps will also work them selves out without heating it overnight too.

I'm sure you know end grain boards are best but, can get expensive. above you can see my 18mm rotary cutter fitted with a cap tool. these can be had anywhere.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Olfa-18mm-Small-Rotary-Cutter-New/351421842912?hash=item51d25fc5e0:g:WioAAOSwPpZZ-xls:sc:ShippingMethodStandard!21045!US!-1
I like the smaller one cause it's more manageable.

I read your other thread and I believe it was mentioned the general rule of thumb is low/med/high moisture (case) filler/binder/wrapper is in order. achieving those perimeters are best if they are fully penetrated carefully. over cased filler will take forever to dry (if at all) binder and wrapper not so much. the dolls (assembled filler and binder without a wrappers) can be dried to assist in drying before the wrapper is applied.
When I'm casing fillers I use a tub with the insides sprayed down. I will hit the leaves directly initially but, most of the absorption comes from the needed time it takes to do so. the problem we run into with just spraying and assembling is the residual water will just over saturate. that is to say, the idea is to while casing, sort and flatten to a degree, ( flatten because you'll want to make sure there are no crinkly hard bits so you can fully control your assembly for optimum draw and burn ) the chance the work area your in is dry so they will dry some when you assemble. you'll learn what optimum means my feel.

I'm not sure if they like direct links to perceived competing forums but. if you click here (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=cigar+making+forums) it will make my recommended search for you.

[rodwha]

I believe we have some of those small hotel jelly jars. I'll have to take a peek in the pantry or maybe in our camping food container.

I know nothing about cutting boards. I bought a replacement board to swap for a used bamboo board that's fairly large (~12x16"). I suppose that will work well? Also bought a pizza cutter.

I took the paper towel out. The leaves are certainly more moist but not as moist as the others. It just seemed on the verge of becoming a bit too dry the other day. It may well be a bit more moist than optimal, but I'm guessing it's not too bad.

[Marc L]

I like that jar because it makes what is actually a good amount for me at this point. I'll say something like 60 sticks.. I'm not sure but, as long as I keep it in the frig it's good.

I think bamboo users have been liking it I believe. pizza cutter in hand, you sound like your ready to go.

Sounds goods. I might be the most anal one around about getting the case right. I'm not sure so much about the other rollers detailed specifics but, I've tried to make mine as clear as I can. trying to help.. you will have to develop your own sensibility to it.

Here is a video on some favored bunching methods. if you don't ever understand what I say or are curious about something, let me know. I'm not sure if I have the best communication skills.


https://youtu.be/zAHec3tOHX8

[rodwha]

Cased I gather means the moisture level of the filler?

I'm rather excited and will get started shortly. I'll rewatch a few videos (I learn better by watching and doing), but I feel I could likely roll a reasonable cigar now with the exception of the cap as I'm uncertain as to how the glue should be applied (figure the whole thing).

In general I like to research interests and ask lots of questions. I'm a bit of a perfectionist who over time learned that perfect isn't always achievable and that 97% is good enough is some applications, though I always strive for perfect.

After I get the hang of this and know for sure that it's something I'll continue to do I want to get a chaveta knife.

I meant to pick up a rolling pin as well. Maybe another time...

Initially I was considering buying another cheap mold from Leaf Only like the one included (~$20 for a double cavity mold), but even 4 at a time seems to lack the end product for the time.

Thanks for all of your time and help so far!

[rodwha]

Interesting way he worked with the filler. In the few videos I've seen I can't say I've seen individual leaves rolled like that.

Apparently the stem isn't removed from filler?

Is it still considered long filler when using scraps to fill voids as he did? I don't recall seeing that in other videos.

SCORE! Dickinson's jelly jars! Just need the kiddo to eat a bunch of PB&Js.

[Marc L]

give me a minute to respond.. I'm watching you.

[rodwha]

Getting started and cut the stem from my wrapper and got out the binder leaves. I found them drier then they were the other day so I went through them looking for one more moist and found two that look to have what looks to me like mold. Yea or nay?

https://s17.postimg.org/46yznnrq7/IMG_3863.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/3u7lhh9gb/)

For now I'll keep them separated in another bag and continue.

[Marc L]

Case = moisture level

Videos can be helpful to a degree but, can also lead to a lot of questions. some playlists of mine.. some of your inquiries may be best addressed directly.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLD6B443D55985FD3D
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-AdMbvzw94RKYrBrkmwueTmcFEdGaF2v
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-AdMbvzw94RYAiibuwVnWTVxjdTgxDAE

know that the amount and ability of your growth is potentially endless. embrace the natural growth that is yours.

A chaveta is not a need but, does for me at least, have a certain feeling of some.. I dont know, thing to it when used.

Bunching techniques are about draw and burn. leaf placement as well as type of combinations and amounts and pressures are key.

stems can be an important part of the blend.

"scraps" are typically use to back-fill as well as place flavor components. here is a deconstruction video of a Padron 64 that surprised many people.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isMA8cGXOWQ

[rodwha]

Attempt #1:

https://s17.postimg.org/qzmlhbbpr/IMG_3864.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/qmv7b4tfv/)

What the hell?!?!

Attempt #2:

https://s17.postimg.org/7ujc7kk73/IMG_3865.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/9mcb2h3jv/)

Looks so much better! However I used 4 leaves for filler instead of 5 as the last one (dude in the video said 3-5 leaves) and it didn't fill the 48 ring mold. Hmmm...

[Marc L]

Oops.. you slipped a post in there on me. your talking about the stem I take it. mold is something you'll want to watch out for. to create it you will need a humid and warm stagnant environment. that looks to be discoloration. mold will have fuzz in most cases.

Skip the rolling pin. get a spark plug socket. its less unruly and if you end up needing it, its much easier.

Congratulations! you've done it and, a shaggy foot pyramid for you first stick at that. nice! Leaf count can get tricky given they very in size. Weight is the best measure.

[rodwha]

Just rolled the wrappers on the two sticks I made yesterday:

https://s17.postimg.org/61q2udhxr/IMG_3870.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/h1ba5z8cr/)

A few things I've learned:

Smoothing out the binder and wrapper leaves and then keeping them nice while rolling them requires three hands somehow. I had torn one binder leaf a little while doing this.

Orienting the wrapper leaf didn't seem to work correctly for me. The end of the leaf ending up close to the middle on the smaller stick. What the hell happened?!?! I ensured the veins were oriented correctly. I guess that's not as important as ensuring there's plenty of end to twist?

I never could get a nice tight pigtail like in the video.

Not the foot but the other end (forgot the term) never ended in a nice rounded end.

The cap cutting tool is clearly too small even for my undersized stick. I didn't even bother with the bigger one that's correctly sized at ~48 ring.

I didn't use my cigar cutter to make a nice clean foot. Usually I like for things to be proper but I just didn't see the point and was afraid I might just mess it up anyway.

This was fun regardless. I'll watch some other videos before I do this again.

[Bruck]

rodwha - sorry, I haven't signed in for a few days and it looks like most of your questions are answered but if not, feel free to ping me or send a PM. Looks like you're off to a good start - your initial sticks look far better than mine did!

My higher level advice is, learn to sing on key before singing loud :) The important things are flavor and burn characteristics. Work on burn first, which is mainly a function of how you work the filler bundle. Watch videos and practice. For flavor, buy small samples of various leaves and try them. I think Leafonly sells 1/4 pound units of some stuff. I'm happy to share my experience if you're interested.

I'm probably not the best person to advise on aesthetics, but I would say, it'll come with practice. I don't put a lot of effort into appearance myself - i'm happy if it looks more like a cigar than a stool sample :)

My biggest challenge continues to be the draw - after rolling 454 cigars I still manage to make a few that are too loose or too tight. I guess I'm not Cuban enough. That reminds me - you should keep a log book of your cigar rolling.

[rodwha]

rodwha - sorry, I haven't signed in for a few days and it looks like most of your questions are answered but if not, feel free to ping me or send a PM. Looks like you're off to a good start - your initial sticks look far better than mine did!

My higher level advice is, learn to sing on key before singing loud :) The important things are flavor and burn characteristics. Work on burn first, which is mainly a function of how you work the filler bundle. Watch videos and practice. For flavor, buy small samples of various leaves and try them. I think Leafonly sells 1/4 pound units of some stuff. I'm happy to share my experience if you're interested.

I'm probably not the best person to advise on aesthetics, but I would say, it'll come with practice. I don't put a lot of effort into appearance myself - i'm happy if it looks more like a cigar than a stool sample :)

My biggest challenge continues to be the draw - after rolling 454 cigars I still manage to make a few that are too loose or too tight. I guess I'm not Cuban enough. That reminds me - you should keep a log book of your cigar rolling.

A log book sounds like an excellent idea! Especially as ADD hinders my memory.

I did notice the 1/4 lb offerings from Leaf Only. I'm ok with a mild smoke as long as there's flavor. That's all I'm really after. Don't care so much about nicotine anymore after I quit chain smoking cigarettes for 26 years.

I'm curious how people get their leaves to stay stretched while rolling. It was quite the task and I failed at it.

[rodwha]

How do you fellas store your leaves? I've been keeping mine in my fermentation chamber (chest freezer w/temp controller) that's set at 65* I believe (stupid Chinese controller only uses Celsius settings, but then it was fairly cheap).

[Bruck]

I'm curious how people get their leaves to stay stretched while rolling. It was quite the task and I failed at it.

I guess I don't so much stretch the wrapper as pull it tight while rolling it on. Here's my technique: I have a stainless tray which I moisten before putting the already-hydrated wrapper on it. It's all pretty wet at this point. I press it down as flat as I can, then after applying glue to the upper edge, sort of pull on it slightly while wrapping.

[Bruck]

How do you fellas store your leaves? I've been keeping mine in my fermentation chamber (chest freezer w/temp controller) that's set at 65* I believe (stupid Chinese controller only uses Celsius settings, but then it was fairly cheap).

Ideally one would keep them in a big humidor, but I have too many in my library, so I just seal them in plastic bags and store them in a big file cabinet. Sometimes they get pretty dry between rolling sessions, which of course is not ideal.

[Marc L]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLN7opr973Q&t=0s

[Marc L]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKrdrK6ZtUY

[Marc L]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxgbSHtCejo

- - - Updated - - -
wrappers and binders

https://i.imgur.com/ft7wH7B.jpg

sorted and halfed fillers

- - - Updated - - -

https://i.imgur.com/XNRRMFX.jpg

[rodwha]

Interesting way that one guy ended his cigar.

It also amazes me how many of these guys don't need a mold.

[Marc L]

Check this one from our friend waikikigun aka blisscigarco.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rmIS0vZfU4&t=0s