FDA Regs Affecting Pipe Tobacco

[Emperor Zurg]

... considering that most Hearth & Home blends are post-2007, so if that new regulation gets enforced, so many of these terrific tobaccos could be lost.

Does anyone know what these nannystate assclowns are actually going to do to us regarding pipe tobacco?
Is the 2007 date going to stick? Are internet sales going to go away?

It certainly doesn't look good
I got this in an email this morning...

sadly, due to some new regulations that are coming, his [Russ's] monthly blends are going away.

And then there's this...

...the FDA wants to impose the arbitrary date of February 15, 2007 as the date at which existing items would be grandfathered in. Any product that was introduced after that date would have to go through testing and approval. What does that mean to you? From the pipe perspective, all of our Hearth & Home Marquee series would vanish, along with newer blends from around the world.
Linky--> Fight FDA Regulations - Pipes and Cigars (http://www.pipesandcigars.com/page/fda-regulation-comments)

Looks like some things are vanishing already.

[BryGuySC]

I've been wondering the same thing.
Not to mention all the good recent tobaccos are going to get scarce fast, as people stockpile them, regardless of whether these regs stick or not.

[Nature]

Effective beginning on August 8, anything introduced to the market after the Feb 2007 date will need to be submitted to the FDA for approval; although nobody knows what the approval process looks like or how extensive or expensive it will be. So, no new tobacco products can be introduced after the Aug date, and anything on the market after Feb 2007 will have 2 years to be approved to stay on the market. It has begun. We are already seeing the withdrawal of products from availability.

Nothing in the new regulations speak of Internet sales. That isn't going away; yet. We will see a drastic reduction in variety, essentially only pre 2007 blends. I can't see the approval process being smooth or efficient; it is our bureaucracy in (im)motion. The skeptic I am, believe the dragging of feet, creating many hoops to jump through, vague requirements, along with not aiding or advising on the process, are some of the tactics employed to get tobacco out of our hands.

[Lynn]

FDA is doin studies an testing on male testicle scratchin to see if it needs to be regulated, but they say there is still 2yrs of more studies before a decision will be reached....

[Aguineapig]

Already allocating more of the budget for stocking up. I don't think I will have it as bad as most though, since I am cellaring deep, rather than wide, and mostly old C&D bulk blends. a few hundred bucks will make a huge difference in how well I sleep at night.

[Hardheaded]

I am not surprised to see some blends vanishing already. Especially if they are not popular or profitable enough to jump through regulatory hoops for. I think we are going to see a lot of blends going away just for that reason. Too much of a risk until the approval process is clearly laid out and the costs known.

The only way around this that I can see, and few companies would have the resources for this, would be to move ownership and production to any country other than the U.S. and stick to online sales direct to the customer much in the way certain cigars still make it into the U.S. In theory they would have two years to do that. Yes they would lose the B&M market, but in the age of internet sales it may still be profitable. I could see this leading to other regulatory problems in the future though for internet sales or customs, which may even be the long term goal of the government and this is just a stepping stone to that.

However this shakes out, it sucks hard for the american consumer. I suppose all we can do for now is oppose the regulations, stock up on our favorites and hope for the best.

[AlanS]

FDA is doin studies an testing on male testicle scratchin to see if it needs to be regulated, but they say there is still 2yrs of more studies before a decision will be reached....

Whats the cut-off date? Id rather keepem and scratchem.

[quo155]

I've been away from pipe & cigar smoking for awhile now, until I recently cold turkey quit dipping...and am excited to be back for pipe smoking. Then, I see this! This stinks...

[BryGuySC]

Anybody know of a resource that will help us know what tobaccos were on the market before or after that 2007 date?
If there isn't one yet, I'm sure it will pop up soon!

[BryGuySC]

Close(ish)

Tobaccoreviews.com from 2006
https://web.archive.org/web/20061121091722/http://www.tobaccoreviews.com/

[Emperor Zurg]

Not to mention all the good recent tobaccos are going to get scarce fast, as people stockpile them...

Guilty. :pipe::updown::rolleyes::p

[Branzig]

The vape industry is big. Lots of people in that community are going to fight this. They may have the time, money, and resources to attack head on. Cigars as well.

Sadly, pipers are such a small community, I don't know if we stand a chance.

Of course, the best plan of action is for all 3 industries to ban together and form a coalition. We will see if that happens.

Fun fact! One of the biggest lobbyist groups pushing for this to go through belongs to ooooooo RJ Reynolds. They're sick of losing revenue to fake "RYO" pipe tobaccos, and they want them gone. Less cheap RYO, more cigarette sales.

RJ also want Internet sales gone-zo as well.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[droy1958]

The vape industry is big. Lots of people in that community are going to fight this. They may have the time, money, and resources to attack head on. Cigars as well.

Sadly, pipers are such a small community, I don't know if we stand a chance.

Of course, the best plan of action is for all 3 industries to ban together and form a coalition. We will see if that happens.

Fun fact! One of the biggest lobbyist groups pushing for this to go through belongs to ooooooo RJ Reynolds. They're sick of losing revenue to fake "RYO" pipe tobaccos, and they want them gone. Less cheap RYO, more cigarette sales.

RJ also want Internet sales gone-zo as well.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

It's just like the beer industry. Make it too expensive for the smaller companies to compete....Our forefathers would be shitting their pants.....

[Emperor Zurg]

Well I don't know about you people but I saw this coming a few years back. I've stockpiled enough pipe tobacco to supply half a dozen 40 year old, bowl-a-day pipe smokers with a decent variety of tobaccos for the rest of their lives... or to supply Jim Inks for a month...

If this only affects '07 and newer blends, I'm assuming my favorite blenders, Gawith Hoggarth and Samuel Gawith will be largely unaffected for the time being. That leaves me time, $$$ permitting, to stockpile even MOAR rope, twist and flake :pipe: The thing that worries me is, if the '07 and newer bakkies are taken off the market, that will shift demand by default to these older, grandfathered blends - which will cause the price to skyrocket; just what the FDA wants.

[Branzig]

Don't know if any of you guys remember the "Gawith shortages" when anything Gawith was being bought up faster than Penzance at a dollar store....but I foresee that coming back.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[cpmcdill]

It's a dire situation. I understand that both the cigar and pipe tobacco companies are lobbying for a moratorium on the date of enforcement, and are additionally trying to get the cut-off date moved from 2007 to at least 2014 or '15. There may be some haggling on the date, but it remains to be seen what happens. I do think the '07 date is arbitrary and just meant to hurt the industry, as that was around the time the pipe and cigar industries had a genuine renaissance after the late-90s boom. The boom brought new smokers to existing brands, but it took almost a decade for the tobacco farms and producers to meet demand and present new and interesting leaves for blenders to create new products with (plus the return of Perique from the brink of extinction).

[Branzig]

Just read that Altria (Phillip Morris) is full on supporting the FDA in their pursuit of shutting down vaping, ecigs, pipes, and cigars. They feel that "anything to stop introducing nicotine to the youth is a worthwhile and just cause."

They particularly want to put an end to the ecigs market....hmm any coincidence that the ecig/vape market is cutting severely into their profits? I think not....

All big tobacco lobbyists are after the same thing here. Getting back their market share. If they can gut out cigar and pipe competition too, then why not?

I realize that pipe/cigar consumers are not the same consumer as cigarette smokers. But some pipe smokers are addicted to nicotine. And they may turn to cigarettes to curb their need.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[BryGuySC]

New thought.
What about brands that have been transitioned to new manufacturers etc. , like Escudo; or Dunhill, which was re-introduced to the US in 2010 I think?

[T.E.Fox]

I have heard the the dollar figure for a new product to go through the hoops is not cheap. Like quarter-of-a-million-dollars not cheap. Don't quote me on that, but it certainly would not surprise me. That shuts out nearly any and all new blends. Most artisan blends would be lucky to have a turnover of that kind of money, let alone enough profit to justify that kind of expenditure. It's just a way to stop the progress of the industry without actually outlawing anything.

If someone like Smokingpipes got together in a duty free part of Switzerland, we would almost be able to see this through. Sure all the blenders would have to conduct business off of US soil, but that's just a hurdle...

[droy1958]

I have heard the the dollar figure for a new product to go through the hoops is not cheap. Like quarter-of-a-million-dollars not cheap. Don't quote me on that, but it certainly would not surprise me. That shuts out nearly any and all new blends. Most artisan blends would be lucky to have a turnover of that kind of money, let alone enough profit to justify that kind of expenditure. It's just a way to stop the progress of the industry without actually outlawing anything.

If someone like Smokingpipes got together in a duty free part of Switzerland, we would almost be able to see this through. Sure all the blenders would have to conduct business off of US soil, but that's just a hurdle...

It would be a lot like the CC market. It just sucks we're going through this in America....

[Chad Vegas]

It's just the suits in Washington bullying a niche that isn't properly represented. All people associate tobacco lovers with cigarette smokers, the worst possible comparison. We need to organize & fight it with a petition, or else this noble hobby will disappear on US soil.

Who's ready to move to Cuba? They are going to start building McDonalds & Starbucks now that the restrictions have been lifted. If things get to outrageous here we can always move & start a community there!

[Branzig]

New thought.
What about brands that have been transitioned to new manufacturers etc. , like Escudo; or Dunhill, which was re-introduced to the US in 2010 I think?
I've wondered about this as well...there are a ton blends that have been reintroduced post 2007...or who have switched manufacturers...

Thank god the Gawith's have been making their tobaccos since before the dinosaurs walked the earth lol

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[Nature]

New thought.
What about brands that have been transitioned to new manufacturers etc. , like Escudo; or Dunhill, which was re-introduced to the US in 2010 I think?


I've wondered about this as well...there are a ton blends that have been reintroduced post 2007...or who have switched manufacturers...

Thank god the Gawith's have been making their tobaccos since before the dinosaurs walked the earth lol

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Not sure how this will pan out; I believe though that in order to be grandfathered, the product needed to be commercially available prior to the 2007 date and thereafter. Not sure how they would interpret temporary periods of product unavailability. A shortage? Maybe? Discontinuing for a period and re-introducing? Perhaps not.
Just speculation.

[Branzig]

Not sure how this will pan out; I believe though that in order to be grandfathered, the product needed to be commercially available prior to the 2007 date and thereafter. Not sure how they would interpret temporary periods of product unavailability. A shortage? Maybe? Discontinuing for a period and re-introducing? Perhaps not.
Just speculation.

I'm pretty sure just about everything I smoke on the regular is pre-2007....With the exception of maybe Storm Front...

But the technicalities of whether it has been reformulated and or switched manufacturers post 2007....that's what scares me.

What's really going to hurt is my cigars...I don't really buy a ton of them at a time so my stash isn't super deep....and I smoke a lot of post 2007 sticks...

All the more reason to fall into the CC death pit I guess.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[allusred]

It's just the suits in Washington bullying a niche that isn't properly represented. All people associate tobacco lovers with cigarette smokers, the worst possible comparison. We need to organize & fight it with a petition, or else this noble hobby will disappear on US soil.

Who's ready to move to Cuba? They are going to start building McDonalds & Starbucks now that the restrictions have been lifted. If things get to outrageous here we can always move & start a community there!



Or....in Iceland.
Jailed bankers, gender equality & majestic fjords: Reasons to love Iceland

https://www.rt.com/viral/349321-iceland-love-landscape-music/



Music oh yes music... those who are into the Classical music would love this, tho it might be a bit much for His excellency Sir.Dog Rockets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhzOqNzjroo

Ágústa Eva Erlendsdóttir(as Silvia Night)


Then again it just might bring back fond memories for Jeremy and entourage in Philly.

[BryGuySC]

I assume the same will apply to blending tobaccos.
Wondering about whole leaf distributors.

[Branzig]

Some good news, I read that the FDA doesn't seem to care about pipes themselves. So artisans and pipe carvers should still be able to take part in their trade....

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[Emperor Zurg]

Some good news, I read that the FDA doesn't seem to care about pipes themselves. So artisans and pipe carvers should still be able to take part in their trade....

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

I figured as much. They don't really 'regulate' dope pipes and all that associated paraphernalia either. Never really did. It's the weed itself they go after. I figured it would be the same with tobacco once they got their claws around that. Besides, what idiot couldn't hollow out a corncob if he were sitting on 200# of tobacco and only lacking a pipe? That's why my evasive maneuvers thus far have focused on acquiring tobacco - not pipes.

[T.E.Fox]

http://www.cigarbum.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5850&stc=1&d=1468445113

[Branzig]

http://www.cigarbum.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5850&stc=1&d=1468445113
Unless he relies on tobacco sales as well, there is no need to close shop.

I've talked to 3 seperate artisans, 2 of which have called and talked to the FDA's retail division and they both got the same answer. As long as the pipes are made with all traditional materials, then there is no problem.

The fine print goes after coils, metals, and batteries specifically (vape/ecig market)

As matter of fact, we have it pretty easy. The FDA is going to abolish vaping.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[T.E.Fox]

Unless he relies on tobacco sales as well, there is no need to close shop.

I've talked to 3 seperate artisans, 2 of which have called and talked to the FDA's retail division and they both got the same answer. As long as the pipes are made with all traditional materials, then there is no problem.

The fine print goes after coils, metals, and batteries specifically (vape/ecig market)

As matter of fact, we have it pretty easy. The FDA is going to abolish vaping.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Well that is good news indeed. Thanks for the info!

[Hardheaded]

As matter of fact, we have it pretty easy. The FDA is going to abolish vaping.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Which is a very sad thing. It has done quite a bit to create jobs and helped a lot of cigarette smokers quit.

Oh wait, thats the point. Get them back on cigarettes so the big companies don't keep seeing losses as more people quit. Silly me. Never mind what is good for the people as long as the company that buys the government can make a profit.

[Branzig]

Which is a very sad thing. It has done quite a bit to create jobs and helped a lot of cigarette smokers quit.

Oh wait, thats the point. Get them back on cigarettes so the big companies don't keep seeing losses as more people quit. Silly me. Never mind what is good for the people as long as the company that buys the government can make a profit.
It's all a lobbyist game.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[Emperor Zurg]

Never mind what is good for the people as long as the company that buys the government can make a profit.
That's right.
Justice and fairness have always been for sale to the highest bidder.
After all, Washington is full of the finest politicians money can buy.

[Branzig]

Lobby games continue, but the money is on our side now.

3 largest groups representing cigars and pipes have banded together to bring a lawsuit to the FDA.

Will it matter? Probanly not. But at least there is a movement and some effort.

I think they need to get in with the vape and ecig organizations and attack the FDA on all fronts if they really want to have a shot at this.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[Aguineapig]

Call me a cynic-- I am expecting the best case scenario to be that law suits, injunctions etc. will stave things off for a few years. Stemming the tide, so to speak. At this point in my life, dropping 500$ on tobacco isnt really in the best interest of my meager finances. If I can put that off for a while even itd be a big help. but I am not optimistic about the long term view.

Fingers crossed anyway.

[Haebar]

This is hitting too close to home:

2016 Nashville Pipe Show Cancellation



It is with great disappointment that the Board of Directors of the Southern Fried Pipe Club must announce the cancellation of the 2016 Nashville Pipe Show. Unfortunately, despite our diligent efforts, the upcoming FDA regulations have resulted in the loss of the necessary sponsorships needed to produce this event.
As of the FDA announcement at the end of May 2016, the Southern Fried Pipe Club, show sponsors, Embassy Suites Franklin Hotel and Convention Center, and numerous other contracted event suppliers were all verbally committed and on‐track to produce an exceptional event. Over the next six weeks, the uncertainty of impending FDA regulation fees forced our sponsors to reevaluate their commitment levels. It also became apparent over the last two weeks that numerous recurring vendors would not be able to participate in the show this year because these new regulations are forcing them to cease their pipe making operations. We hold no ill will toward any of our loyal sponsors and vendors involved for their decisions in this time of uncertainty.
The Board of the Southern Fried Pipe Club has exhausted every available option, including personally financing a significant portion of the show expenses, in an effort to achieve our vision for the Nashville Pipe Show. Ultimately, as sponsorship waned, our position became untenable last Friday July 8th and we were forced to make the decision to cancel the show this year.
As active members of the pipe smoking community we feel and understand any and all disappointment. We realize you may have already made plans to attend the Nashville Pipe Show. We offer our sincere apologies and assure you we were operating in good faith through the end. In light of possible prior travel commitments, we hope to possibly organize a fellowship gathering on the same weekend, Sept 23‐24, with the help of our friends at UPTown's Smoke Shop. We will provide details if and when they become available.
Unfortunately, the proposed FDA regulations are leaving the future of our hobby in jeopardy. We encourage you to get involved in the legislative process and join us in the fight against the FDA.
###
If you would like more information about this topic, please contact Southern Fried Pipe Club at [email protected].



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[Emperor Zurg]

http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae231/E-Zurg/GovServBig_zps311667a1.jpg

[Lostmason]

As has been noted in at least one discussion on another site,these new regs will effectivly block the cuban market from re-entering,
So it appears to me that the only true beneficiaries of these new rules is the big tobacco companies that produce cigarettes.If i remember
correctly,cigarettes are what the lil kiddies are starting out on,not the vapes,not the cigars,and quite definately not pipe tobacco.So,,,,
just how is this supposed to stop younger generations from starting to smoke especially the cigarettes which are addictive and 100 times
more damaging?

[Branzig]

[QUOTE=Lostmason;137422If i remember correctly,cigarettes are what the lil kiddies are starting out on,not the vapes[/QUOTE]

I'm not so sure on this one...I think more kids are starting out vaping than they are smoking. I see a way more kids vaping than I do smoking. Whether it be weed or juice.

So it actually works out in big tobacco's favor EVEN MORE!!! The kids get hooked on high nicotine e-juice, then it gets taken away from them...so where do they have to turn other than sin sticks? Cigarette sales will go up up up.

[GWBowman]

If someone like Smokingpipes got together in a duty free part of Switzerland, we would almost be able to see this through. Sure all the blenders would have to conduct business off of US soil, but that's just a hurdle...

I have been wondering if we would have to order pipe tobacco and NCs from the same places people order CCs. As if we don't send enough money outside the US. We will be asking bluenoser to keep us stocked up.

[Lostmason]

I'm not so sure on this one...I think more kids are starting out vaping than they are smoking. I see a way more kids vaping than I do smoking. Whether it be weed or juice.

So it actually works out in big tobacco's favor EVEN MORE!!! The kids get hooked on high nicotine e-juice, then it gets taken away from them...so where do they have to turn other than sin sticks? Cigarette sales will go up up up.

You're right,just remember I'm an old Fart,to me vaping is sitting a pot of boiling water with vicks under my nose to open the sinusus's.

[bluenoser]

I have been wondering if we would have to order pipe tobacco and NCs from the same places people order CCs. As if we don't send enough money outside the US. We will be asking bluenoser to keep us stocked up.

Hope you have deep pockets, welcome to the land of nonsensical tax and government controls. Last time I asked about a pouch of Borkum riff at a local convenience store I believe it was around $25. Any wonder why we buy from you guys down there. This FDA thing has me worried too as I don't have a lot to spend on the hobby and the low Canadian dollar has me avoiding any purchases since winter. Wineador's starting to look pretty bare. A lot of provinces up here are Banning flavored tobacco products to reduce interest from young people, even going after pipe tobacco. Damned all the pipe smoking teenagers, ruining it for the rest of us...

[T.E.Fox]

Hope you have deep pockets, welcome to the land of nonsensical tax and government controls. Last time I asked about a pouch of Borkum riff at a local convenience store I believe it was around $25....

I feel your pain. Most of the few tobacconists around the country here will happily sell you a tin of Erinmore flake for the low low price of $60 give or take.

[droy1958]

I feel your pain. Most of the few tobacconists around the country here will happily sell you a tin of Erinmore flake for the low low price of $60 give or take.

Jeezes, you guys need to move. I piss and moan about our prices. Erinmore Flake is $8.00 a tin....

[Bruck]

So far from what I've read, whole leaf tobacco will not be affected. So there's always the pioneer ethic to fall back on.

[Emperor Zurg]

So far from what I've read, whole leaf tobacco will not be affected. So there's always the pioneer ethic to fall back on.

Yeah but I'm not Huckleberry Finn. I like my chocolate flake and my Red Raparree. Don't want to shred up a leaf and stuff it in a pipe :( Hey, ya know anyone who makes a decent home pressed flake :D Might end up being a lucrative skill one of these days; sort of a second cousin to running a still :p

[Lostmason]

Yeah but I'm not Huckleberry Finn. I like my chocolate flake and my Red Raparree. Don't want to shred up a leaf and stuff it in a pipe :( Hey, ya know anyone who makes a decent home pressed flake :D Might end up being a lucrative skill one of these days; sort of a second cousin to running a still :p

I've had the pleasure of smoking some of Tobias Lutz 's home blends.I can vouch for his skill.I believe that Bruck blends as well.
And if all else fails we can always kidnap NeverBend and raid JimInks............

[JimInks]

I've had the pleasure of smoking some of Tobias Lutz 's home blends.I can vouch for his skill.I believe that Bruck blends as well.
And if all else fails we can always kidnap NeverBend and raid JimInks............

You'd better think twice about raiding this house. Suzy and Molly are trained and ruthless killer cats with nun-chucks, bazookas, and poison porcupine whiskers. You'd never make it, buddy!!! :hung::buzzsaw::crossbones::machinegun::devilgrin: :loco::3stooges::kitty::kitty::kitty:

[Lostmason]

You'd better think twice about raiding this house. Suzy and Molly are trained and ruthless killer cats with nun-chucks, bazookas, and poison porcupine whiskers. You'd never make it, buddy!!! :hung::buzzsaw::crossbones::machinegun::devilgrin: :loco::3stooges::kitty::kitty::kitty:

I'll bring my chaweenie who is teeth with a tail and my Polly cat,she's a pirate....:spy:

[Haebar]

Good overview of the new tobacco rules with a little marketing thrown in. Done by Phil Morgan of Missouri Meerschaum.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=share&v=5hbrzr4KEWk

[Bruck]

Yeah but I'm not Huckleberry Finn. I like my chocolate flake and my Red Raparree. Don't want to shred up a leaf and stuff it in a pipe :( Hey, ya know anyone who makes a decent home pressed flake :D Might end up being a lucrative skill one of these days; sort of a second cousin to running a still :p

I'm just thinking about the pathologicals of the situation. I love my Penzance, Nightcap, and FVF, but if Uncle Sam puts our acorns in a vise, I could get by on my own moonshine tobacco.

[droy1958]

I've had the pleasure of smoking some of Tobias Lutz 's home blends.I can vouch for his skill.I believe that Bruck blends as well.
And if all else fails we can always kidnap NeverBend and raid JimInks............

I've had the pleasure of some of Bruck homemade flakes. I can tie him up here and feed him some tater chips and such and keep him here under the whip, and if he produces I'll keep him alive. If not, it's on to Tobias Lutz and I can bury Bruck at the farm.... ;)

- - - Updated - - -


You'd better think twice about raiding this house. Suzy and Molly are trained and ruthless killer cats with nun-chucks, bazookas, and poison porcupine whiskers. You'd never make it, buddy!!! :hung::buzzsaw::crossbones::machinegun::devilgrin: :loco::3stooges::kitty::kitty::kitty:

You can keep the cats and pipes. We'll make do with the terbacky.....

[Lostmason]

I've had the pleasure of some of Bruck homemade flakes. I can tie him up here and feed him some tater chips and such and keep him here under the whip, and if he produces I'll keep him alive. If not, it's on to Tobias Lutz and I can bury Bruck at the farm.... ;)

- - - Updated - - -



You can keep the cats and pipes. We'll make do with the terbacky.....

JimInks are you feeling,,,,,:peep::behindsofa::peep:,,,,Watched ?

[JimInks]

JimInks are you feeling,,,,,:peep::behindsofa::peep:,,,,Watched ?

Nah. My well trained scorpions bite anybody who tries.

[Madbricky]

Just stunning news¡