Never Thought it would happen to me! Beetles

[JollyRogers]

So,

With this crazy weather we've been having, the old house I live in has really struggled to maintain a good temperature. Lo and behold as I was going through my stock tonight to make room for some new cigars I caught a glimpse of a beetle eaten 601 Blue Maduro that I got in a 10 pack off CigarBid about 5 or so months ago. Panic immediately set in and I went through my entire stock to see how bad things were. It seems that the beetle(s) only got into the two 601 Blues. One is visibly tunneled through with one hole in its cello. This hole lines up with a second 601 Blue perfectly which has a single hole into it but doesn't appear to have tunneling that has broken its surface. I'm going to cut into each of them and see what all happened. Pictures to follow.

I went through every other cigar in that tupperdor and didn't notice any signs of beetles so I'm hoping things are ok. Just to be safe, I placed every cigar in some gallon ziplocks and into the chest freezer we have.

I'm wondering how quickly beetles can do this damage to a cigar. I literally had just gone through my humidor to put together the NOOB sampler I sent out and even more recently went through to send 34 cigars to the troops (which I'm now freezing prior to shipping).

One question, when placing cigars like this in the freezer should I include boveda packs in the bags or just leave them unhumidified? Also, how long should I leave them in there?

Finally, I assume afterwards they will all need to be re-acclimated?

Once again, thanks for the help, I am a bit panicked and slightly embarrassed as I've sent a few of these out in recent trades (already notified the recipients and they are taking appropriate precautions)

Pics to follow

[StogieNinja]

Don't put the Bovedas in there, and double bag everything.

If your freezer gets to 0*F, i would do 72hrs, then 12 in the fridge and you should be fine.

I've smoked sticks right out of the freezer and they were fine, but I would recommend overall giving your stock time to re-acclimate.

[Tombstone]

I had one stick that had some beatle holes about two years ago. I put my fingers over the holes and smoked that crap out of them. I froze my cigars for about a week then a day or two in the fridge. I had no issues after that. Glad you found it early.

[Old Smokey]

Chris, I am sorry to hear this, but at least you caught it quickly. I freeze everything when I get them just for peace of mind. I do at least 72 hours, but instead of moving to the fridge for a few hours, I wrap the freezer bag in a towel and set it in a ice chest for a day to allow them to return to temp very slowly. Troy aka @Trackmeyer recommended this method and it made good sense to me. They have smoked very well with only a couple of days after freezing.

[dj1340]

I normally put my stick's in the fridge for 3 day's and then 3 day's in the freezer followed by 3 days in the fridge again.
No Boveda packs at all. Never had a problem, " knock on wood". Best of luck though

[JollyRogers]

Thanks everyone for the advice, they are all currently in the freezer. I have a thermometer in there to see just how cold it is getting. I will likely leave them in there through the weekend. Old Smokey, I like that idea as I have plenty of room in the ice chest but none in the fridge!

Here's the pics:
The two damaged cigars:
http://i811.photobucket.com/albums/zz33/hydroslyder/CigarBum/354561D5-8633-4996-849A-00538F4A94A4_zpsrltzoiy8.jpg

The pass through hole:
http://i811.photobucket.com/albums/zz33/hydroslyder/CigarBum/37B5F0F4-6722-4330-A46B-78C4EAC6F5A0_zpsh8ccjy2p.jpg
I couldn't actually find the beetle when I cut into them but in the mess of leaves if it was just one it could have easily been missed.

Only one had significant damage:
http://i811.photobucket.com/albums/zz33/hydroslyder/CigarBum/1489A9D8-6810-4931-A9DC-C61B657A71EB_zpsczi9rxll.jpg

http://i811.photobucket.com/albums/zz33/hydroslyder/CigarBum/08C1CB83-C9A1-4050-8C20-31EDC4FF786B_zpsmrvvpong.jpg

http://i811.photobucket.com/albums/zz33/hydroslyder/CigarBum/E426CC83-B9F5-4FC1-B9B0-CE6672E6DDE1_zpspjpfqptg.jpg

The stock resting in the freezer...looks a lot smaller out of the cedar trays and all bagged up like this:
http://i811.photobucket.com/albums/zz33/hydroslyder/CigarBum/160E9A52-EC14-4E52-BD9A-A4C373069E7C_zpsfm3nkdnk.jpg

[bluenoser]

Glad to hear you caught it early, just out of curiosity, what temp/RH do you keep things at?

[JollyRogers]

Humidity is maintained with 65% Boveda's in an airtight tupperdor. This puts the actual humidity on 2 calibrated right around 66% actually.

Temp in the house is typically 68-70 but it's an old system that doesn't do great keeping up with the swings so it can occasionally get as high as 75 for a few hours during the heat of the day.

[JollyRogers]

Well one positive thing came out of this...just ordered a Newair 281E wine cooler to convert to my new wineador! Got it on Air N Water as a "scratch & dent" item. With promo code it is mine for $116 out the door!!! Woohoo!

[Brent Strande]

Wow. I get into a habit of freezing early on but have slacked some since getting the wineador!

[JollyRogers]

Wow. I get into a habit of freezing early on but have slacked some since getting the wineador!

I'll admit, I never froze. It seemed to be less of a concern with non-cc's. I got a bit paranoid a while back when there were some cases of some Crowned Head's getting beetles so I've paid pretty close attention to my stock to check for signs.

Hopefully this will be a non issue once my wineador arrives!

[tjhemp]

That is some very disturbing photos you got there. This is some old information that I got from another BOTL a few years back and its what I follow today.

There will be constant discussion around whether or not to freeze your cigars and whether it impacts flavor or not. If the risk of potential damage in the form of burst wrappers, loss of flavor, or drying out is worth taking a risk on having cigar beetles. I have enclosed a couple of the more extreme versions of what happens to cigars after these critters get to them. It can happen in both Cuban and Non-Cuban varieties.

One of the first things to understand is that although many producers including cubans may flash freeze their cigars that is only one poin on the stop to your humidor. Also cigars are very insulative and given that we do not fully know the quality control of the producer there is risk that eggs are not killed. In addition there are points along the way that beetles can be introduced, secondary wholesaler, vendor, or sadly that fellow BOTL or SOTL that so kindly bombed you are sold you a few sticks. So prevention in my mind is the key.

I have adopted a 100% freeze policy, that means that every stick that enters my house is frozen before being tranferred to my humidors regardless of where they come from or how they are shipped and regardless of outside weather. After two infestations I have never had one single case.

The are many opinions around how long it takes to kill the various stages of beetles. I have read many different forums and finally started searching for research rather than word of mouth. After reading several similar studies with varying degrees of testing and information I settled on one that I felt was most comprehensive for a Cigar Smokers needs.

The study is:

Low-temperature as an alternative to fumigation to disinfest stored tobacco of the cigarette beetle, Lasioderma serricorne (F.) (Coleoptera: Anobiidae)

Completed and submitted on April 2005 revised October 2005 as undertaken at the Leaf Tobacco Research Center, Japan Tobacco Inc.


One other thing I did was check the average temperature of my freezer. If you don't have a thermometer I have looked and found that the average temperature of a household freezer is between -12 and -18 degrees Celsius and if you go with the higher temp and work from there there is little risk.

Many people will tell you that the freezing will ruin the taste of the cigars. I have my opinion and that is there is no discernable difference. In addition I have bombed, gifted, traded, sold several hundred cigars to members of this board and others and not one has told me that the cigar tasted like it was "frozen" opinions will vary on this but there is little if any imperical evidence either way.

Last peice before I lay out the process is one excerpt from the white paper, and that is the mortality table for all stages of cigar beetles and various temperatures.

Egg

-20 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 1 hr
-15 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 4 hr
-10 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 12 hr
-5 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 48 hr
0 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 240 hr
5 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 336 hr


Larval

-20 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 1 hr
-15 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 3 hr
-10 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 12 hr
-5 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 96 hr
0 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 288 hr
5 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 336 hr

Acclimated Larval (acclimated at 15 Celsius for 3 months to determine acclimation impact if any)

-20 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 1 hr
-15 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 6 hr
-10 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 24 hr
-5 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 504 hr
0 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 1176 hr
5 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 1680 hr

Pupal

-20 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 1 hr
-15 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 4 hr
-10 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 48 hr
-5 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 288 hr
0 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 840 hr


Adult

-20 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 1 hr
-15 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 2 hr
-10 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 2 hr
-5 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 72 hr
0 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 288 hr
5 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 840 hr

This information is the information I used to determine my process.

Given the insulative properties of a box of cigars I deduced (ok fully guessed) that doubling the time would be sufficient to bring the cigars to the appropriate temperature for the appropriate time. It is important to remember that this was direct exposure to these temperatures for the bugs not nestled into a box of your favorite sticks.

The following is my process based on what I have read and adjusted from the above and others.

1. I vacumm seal my cigars in freezer grade bags ( I use a food saver food vacuum for boxes but be cautious it can crush a spanish cedar box easily) or a straw and lung power for singles. While some folk double bag if you are using food quality freezer grade I don't see a need for this.

2. I then put the cigars in the fridge to slowly lower the temperature closer to the freezing point to prevent possible wrapper bursting from rapid freeze, I also assume (again a guess) that it is gentler on the cigars. I leave them there for 12 hours.

3. I then move the cigars to the freezer where they will stay for 48 hours this ensures that the temperature is reached and any potential bugs are more than dead.

4. The cigars then go back to the fridge to allow for a little slower thaw, this is done for between 12-24 hours.

5. I then remove the cigars from the fridge and keep them in the back and allow them to come up to room temperature (3-5 hours)

6. Out of the bag and back in the humidor where they will rest for a couple of weeks to acclimate to the RH% that I like as would any stick from a vendor.

[JollyRogers]

I'm not going to quote that entire post but wow tjhemp that was a great post! I'll admit I had read some of that same research and I'm totally a case of "that will never happen to me". Live and learn, I seem to be lucky in that I found the damage quickly and also alerted those I passed to quickly. Seriously though, your post is sticky worthy in my opinion!

[WNYTONY]

Well that sucks Chris but good you caught it before the little bastards chomped your stash.

[Sticky B]

Dayum. I'm still a non-freezer, but watching it happen to someone instead of hearing the story from the past is starting to shake me.

Will I change? Probably not until this same crap happens to me... or I see a few more stories pop up in the near future...

but seriously, glad you caught it early, and took right to treatment!

Beetles, yuck!

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/__MbZY_gKBMU/TUvrp3Z8A1I/AAAAAAAABII/8JfTtryeCZg/s1600/cat+vomit.jpg

[allusred]

This is no more than ,at best, semi related to the topic of Beetles.
When I was storing a number of boxes in a coolador, from time to time I'd add a box or two that I 'd purchased cellophaned unopened into the Coolador.
Luckily never had a problem. Now, tho a sealed box may sit on a shelf for a week or or more, every box is opened and checked before the cigars go into the huimidor.

Did have a problem, once, only once. Three boxes of 7x48~49 (Churchills ?) that were purchased by a girl on vacation. A nice gesture, someone takes time to do this ,fly back with that extra weight,etc.Everything looked perfect, boxes sealed, no damage. When opened there was not an inch of cigar that hadn't been destroyed by beetles. Thanked her for getting the cigars for me, couldn't tell her the condition of the cigars. The fault was mine.
I'd forgotten to ask her to purchase at the one location that kept their stock right. Most likely she purchased them at a smaller shop. The cost was less than $90.00 (did I say it was a while back?)....but I sure as hell had been looking forwards to those.

[JollyRogers]

Dayum. I'm still a non-freezer, but watching it happen to someone instead of hearing the story from the past is starting to shake me.

Will I change? Probably not until this same crap happens to me... or I see a few more stories pop up in the near future...

but seriously, glad you caught it early, and took right to treatment!

Beetles, yuck!

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/__MbZY_gKBMU/TUvrp3Z8A1I/AAAAAAAABII/8JfTtryeCZg/s1600/cat+vomit.jpg

I'll be honest I about looked like that cat when I found them. Especially knowing I had recently sent out two of those sticks. Having looked through everything and talked to those BOTL's I believe this was isolated to the two sticks in my humidor. Needless to say I'll be freezing from here on out (have access to a chest freezer, might as well use it) and will be storing in a wineador too.

[Zeede]

Ouch, I am really sorry to hear about that, Chris!

[CoachDread]

This is a good wakeup call. It's a pain to have to freeze everything but I'm not willing to risk the alternative. Thanks for the reminder Chris!

[projectsunfire]

damn Chris that is some scary stuff right there. Looking at those pics freaks me out. I have never frozen any cigars before. Now I feel like I need to go inspect every single cigar I have. I keep the temp in my wineador at 65 degrees usually. So I am hoping I will never have this issue but ignorance is truly bliss and I have to really reconsider freezing everything new coming in

I'm just glad to hear that you caught it so soon. and congrats on the wineador. Its the only way to go!

[Lynn]

ya know ifin ya chew them cigars, you'll also get some protein...

[JollyRogers]

damn Chris that is some scary stuff right there. Looking at those pics freaks me out. I have never frozen any cigars before. Now I feel like I need to go inspect every single cigar I have. I keep the temp in my wineador at 65 degrees usually. So I am hoping I will never have this issue but ignorance is truly bliss and I have to really reconsider freezing everything new coming in

I'm just glad to hear that you caught it so soon. and congrats on the wineador. Its the only way to go!

I hadn't frozen anything either. And you better believe I went through EVERY. SINGLE. STICK. after I found these two. I would hope you never have the issue with the wineador...I mean that's basically the point of having one. I will probably start a freezing routine moving forward.

[projectsunfire]

I hadn't frozen anything either. And you better believe I went through EVERY. SINGLE. STICK. after I found these two. I would hope you never have the issue with the wineador...I mean that's basically the point of having one. I will probably start a freezing routine moving forward.

yeah when I moved to Florida the wineador really wasnt an option anymore. It was a necessity. But my concern is getting cigars in the mail and them sitting in a hot mail truck or the mailbox for a long period of time. If a cigar is infected I wonder if that could get the beetle train rolling enough where it would be too late even if I immediately put it in the wineador. just scary stuff to think about especially when you have a rather large and expensive collection.

[Lynn]

yeah when I moved to Florida the wineador really wasnt an option anymore. It was a necessity. But my concern is getting cigars in the mail and them sitting in a hot mail truck or the mailbox for a long period of time. If a cigar is infected I wonder if that could get the beetle train rolling enough where it would be too late even if I immediately put it in the wineador. just scary stuff to think about especially when you have a rather large and expensive collection.


get a small cheap collection an put ya new cigars with that collection....

[allusred]

yeah when I moved to Florida the wineador really wasnt an option anymore. It was a necessity. But my concern is getting cigars in the mail and them sitting in a hot mail truck or the mailbox for a long period of time. If a cigar is infected I wonder if that could get the beetle train rolling enough where it would be too late even if I immediately put it in the wineador. just scary stuff to think about especially when you have a rather large and expensive collection.

One thing I don't like when ordering cigars online is that the smokes may sit baking or steaming in a van for hours at a time in hot humid weather.
Remember how warm a delayed flat rate box can feels when you get it on a ninety plus degree day?

[Lynn]

One thing I don't like when ordering cigars online is that the smokes may sit baking or steaming in a van for hours at a time in hot humid weather.
Remember how warm a delayed flat rate box can feels when you get it on a ninety plus degree day?


same thin hapens with that B&M order

[Upstatemax]

A thread on here a few months ago convinced me to start freezing EVERYTHING...

Just too much to risk. I have a wineador and they keep cool, but someone on here mentioned that they have seen outbreaks happen even in cooler temps.

I slammed my laptop shut and ran down to my humidors and started the freezing process. Lol.

My wife informed me that she wishes that SHE could get me to move that fast.

Glad you caught it early and it was not a total, heartbreaking tragedy!

[projectsunfire]

get a small cheap collection an put ya new cigars with that collection....

I truly wish I was capable of having a small cheap collection sometimes

[WNYTONY]

I truly wish I was capable of having a small cheap collection sometimes

Now, now - let's not get crazy......

[Chad Vegas]

Sorry to hear about that bro! Glad you cuaght those early, always hear stories about it but never seen the aftermath before.

[Lynn]

I truly wish I was capable of having a small cheap collection sometimes

ya sayin ya is a addict????