Brick & Mortar Philosophy

[Yarddog]

So, here comes I...and ignorant cigar fan who has discovered on-line purchasing a couple of years ago, and buys most of his sticks thataway. But...I also use the local B&M's for special, 'treat', ceegars, and would like to be able to use them to buy singles of some of the new releases. Mind you, I live in Southern California, where most ceegar stores seem to be all encompassing places for anything to be smoked, including hookah, cigarettes, vape, stogies, and the ever present 'head shop' stuff. And you'll usually find 'em in the ever-present strip malls scattered here and there. Most...but not all.

Now, I get why prices are mostly higher than MSRP in some of those places...rent is VERY high here in SoCal, and it seems like most commercial landlords would rather see space vacant and making nothing rather than lower the rent to a level where tenants can make money. It's not unusual to spend double or more on a ceegar than what I would spend on-line.

What I DO expect out of a B&M is excellent service. THAT is what to me, the consumer, is gonna keep me comin' in and comin' back. So here's the crux of my question...and there are actually two...and maybe somebody who owns, or has worked, in a B&M can edjumicate me a bit...

When I walk into a store, it's always handy for the guy behind the counter to be pretty schooled in the art of cigar smoking. I would like him or her to be able to qualify me...in other words, find out what my likes and dislikes are...and either tell me where the sticks are that I'm looking for, OR maybe make some suggestions. What I get from many B&M's...not all...is a surly attitude, like 'if you're not one of the regulars here, I have no time for ya'...or just plain iggerance...So, if I'm not gonna get the service I need, and the employee/owner doesn't appeal to my sense of adventure...maybe that's a poor analogy...why do I need to go there?

That's the first question I'd like to throw out there for discussion. The second issue is inventory. And primarily, where are all the newer releases? And what in the wholesale/retail model prevents local B&M's from keeping on top of things, procuring a small sample shipment of newer releases, talkin' them up a bit, and seeing if they're received well, or not? Or are the proprietors afraid that doing so will affect the sales of their 'bread and butter' inventory, maybe that inventory which produces higher profit margins than might be possible with selling the newer releases?

Is maybe one of the reasons that the distributors of new releases, including but not limited to 'boutique cigars', only willing to ship a certain minimum out to the retailers? Here's the scenario in my mind...I'm the vendor on the street...a couple of my customers have come in expressing interest in the latest and greatest, let's call it The Wise Owl Barnyard. So, I check into it, and want maybe a box or two of the vitola that's either specified by the customer, or a vitola that I knows sells well in my area. Is the response I'm gonna get, "sure, I understand that there's risk involved, but I'll ship you out what you want, do me a favor and push 'em a little bit so you can get a buzz going then get back with me and I'll ship more because there will be a demand developing". Or is it "nahhhhh...it ain't worth it to us to take that risk...either take twenty cases at 90% of MSRP or get down the road"?

Let's get real world here...it's only been in the last month or so that the Camacho American Barrel Aged has been showing up in local stores. And that's not a boutique stick. I go into stores and say, 'hey, about that Sobremesa?'...and I get the blank stare. Dude! I'm a consumer, I peruse the interweb, and I know what this cigar is! I'm not making money on ceegars! You are! And you don't know what it is, much less make any attempt to see if it will sell in your store?'

So, tell me, B&M owners/employees...when your passion becomes your business, do you slowly...maybe quickly...lost interest in your product? Is the Mighty Margin now become your raison d'etre? Do you not know that the juggernaut, the Mighty Interweb Giant Store, knows more about your products than you do, can sell it for less and easier? And that really, if you can't provide me the service or product I need, I don't need to budge from my computer screen to get what I want?

What am I missing here? What keeps these stores in business? And is it this way around the country, or just in the Living Hell That Is SoCal? (not all areas are bad...just the cities. They suck.)

Not your usual question, I know...I'll bet some good thinkin' goes into answering this one, and I hope to be able to connect the dots after reading the responses...

[Cool Breeze]

So, tell me, B&M owners/employees...when your passion becomes your business, do you slowly...maybe quickly...lost interest in your product?

I don't think that you necessarily lose interest in it, but there is no doubt that it becomes a job. Hobbies that turn into careers lose their luster to a degree. That doesn't always mean that they don't care about them at all.

For example, just last week I was sitting at the table of knowledge at my local shop, which is amazing by the way, having a stogie and talking to the shop manager. I mentioned this site and we talked about discussion forums for a while. He is not a member of any and when I mentioned him wanting to go home and not think about cigars his response was, "I'm here six days a week and all I think or talk about is pipes and cigars. When I leave the only cigar I want to think about is the one I'm smoking."

I totally get that.

However the difference between this place and what you're talking about is that the manager and all of the employees are not only extremely knowledgeable and up to date on the latest products but also very polite and quick to strike up a conversation with customers, newbies and experienced guys alike. Heck it wouldn't make any sense to be any other way. The goal of any business is to make money and the way you do that is be the best at what you do and treat people good. Seems elementary to me, but after all, I'm just a half smart country boy so what do I know? I'm sure those fancy Caleeforna folks know better than me. :stogie:

[Demuths1770]

one of the BIGGEST issues that most B&Ms fight is shelf space. with all these new releases every year its hard to pick a cigar to get rid of to make space. i think another problem is the newer generation of cigar smokers are smoking these limited releases and new sticks and most cigar shops are established shops ran buy guys who love the Chohiba red dots, Monte Cristos, and Romeo n Juliets. not that this is a bad thing but i think a lot of what is driving the new cigars and brands we see is being driven by the internet and forums and cigar groups. also when i think of the CA market and how the prices are i think that most of the B&Ms there cater to people who just smoke because its a status thing not because they enjoy the flavors and relaxation of it. thats just my opinion from what i have heard.

[Bruck]

You raise good points. I've got a few B&Ms within reach, and most of them have excellent customer service and selection. But there's one in a "yuppie" area, near where I work, that utterly perplexes me. The guy who runs it knows nothing about his product, and doesn't seem all that interested in moving it. I try not to talk to him, for fear of knowing less than when I started. Must be a tax writeoff or money-laundering scheme :)

[omahaorange]

I have couple near me that I use. One has just a few selections, and it's what he likes. His primary business is vape and roll-your-own crowds. He's more than happy to order boxes for you, but his mark-up means he can't touch on-line pricing. There is no place to smoke.

Second place is about 15 minutes away. Same business model (vape and ryo) but a much better selection of cigars. Prices aren't that bad, but I never asked about special orders. Also, no place to smoke.

Third place is different. Cigar bar in the basement of an upscale restaurant. Nice place, good seating, in an old train station. The owner is a true coneusiuer. I believe at best he breaks even here, money is from the restaurant. He sponsors a monthly tasting, has a cigar rep, liquor and beer samples, and food, all for 10 bucks. Bar pricing is reasonable, Discounts boxes off msrp that puts them close to Internet prices. Owner is a real friendly guy, and is always willing to talk cigars. If it was a little closer I be there more often than just the events.

The difference between these people and us is, for us it's a passion, a hobby. For these guys, it's a livelihood. You gotta pay the bills first, so you stock what sells the most. In the first example, it's a mom and pop. Pop is into cigars, but the area is more into the other stuff. Second example is a small, local chain. Better selection of cigars, but the employees are simply cashiers, and bulk of the business is lottery, vapes, and ryo. Third place is actually a cigar place. Bar is set up for smoking, the owner is there and circulates freely, knows cigars, and is happy to teach. His main business though, is the restaurant.

While it's nice think anybody who sells cigars is as passionate about them as we are, in the end, it's all about profit and loss. While we may open a business based on something we love, in the end it has to be about the bottom line. That's what keeps the lights on and the refrigerator full.

[Yarddog]

Cool Breeze...the thing that strikes me about the reluctance of the shop owner not wanting to get on line on his own time is...hey...do it during work hours! I get that he wouldn't want to spend his home time worrying about business, but during the time where he's not waiting on people is a great time to keep current with the trends.

Good points are made about the brands that sell well versus the newer, more risky new blends. I'm hoping that one of the guys who are a boutique blend honcho weighs in to tell me that my model about introducing of newer blends blow, or whether I be onto something.

Keep those ideas flowing in, folks! Some grateful responses so far!

[greige matter]

I live in NE Pennsylvania and most cigars are sold in cigarette shops that have a few humidors filled with your basic main stream cigars. These are run by people that have no idea what makes a cigar a cigar. I seldom even go into one of these places.

I am lucky to be within a 30 minute ride of both Famous and Cigars Inter. I visit them mainly in the winter when weather forces me indoors. No lack of selection or cigar knowledge in either place.

[Demuths1770]

Good points are made about the brands that sell well versus the newer, more risky new blends. I'm hoping that one of the guys who are a boutique blend honcho weighs in to tell me that my model about introducing of newer blends blow, or whether I be onto something.


i dont think its so much that it is a risk it is more so where are they gonna put it. i go to my one local shop usually weekly sometimes bi weekly and usually get a chance to talk with the owner who is a younger guy that is really great and in on cigars. he has a awesome selection and a huge overhead that he moves regularly. he told me a few weeks ago the biggest challenge is going and finding what he is going to no longer stock in order to make room for these new releases especially with the inventory selection he has. he carries a lot of the boutique blends and gets the new cigars in every year so its hard for him to turn over. i honestly think the the way a store is ran and the inventory they stock has a lot to do with the owners age. i think the older owners are more stuck in there ways an also not up and up with technology. as far as a minimum order it all depends upon if they are going through wholesale or direct with the company and some boutique brands dont like to have a bunch of shops in one area selling there brand as well so they have a mileage range. i know my local shop owner was telling me about a brand (cant remember the name) that will only allow one store in a 50 mile radius to carry there brand

[FireRunner]

Operating a cigar store is expensive and very difficult. I am a Landlord, business owner and a property manager. I'm very experienced in all areas of business operations to real estate. Two major factors are location and rental rate. Location is key because if you're in a state that high tobacco tax it is near impossible to compete with online businesses. The second key to location is their proximity to customers who will visit store. Within Washington DC there are only a few cigar stores, however they do well because of location to customers who prefer not to maintain cigars. Rather, they want to purchase and smoke when the time comes.

Rental rate is extremely key since it is usually the highest expense for a business. So, it's a serious balancing act to select a location where a store will have enough customers to be profitable.

I'm lucky enough to have a great relationship with one of my local stores. However, most are not as fortunate. At the end of the day I still, for any industry of business, try to support location stores even if could get better prices online.

[Herf N Turf]

Wow! There are some really great, informative responses here and most are on the money.

I only have a couple things to add.

First, you're right about your right to good customer service. Just as long as you bear in mind that if you're in there during everyone's lunch hour, or right after everyone gets off work, it's not reasonable to expect, "excellent customer service", or a two hour indulgence of your fancies. The guy's gotta make a living and as was pointed out, it ain't easy. We're talking about an average ticket item of 8 bucks and you've got to sell a ton of 8 buck items to pay your rent. He's gotta make hay when he can, so if there's a line at the counter, don't try to take him away from it to answer detailed questions. Just common sense, really.

One thing that's not been mentioned, but sort of ties in with display space is the fact that many stores are "sponsored" on some level or another. Cigar distributors give out a lot of promotional items, events, merchandise enticements, etc., with the expectation (whether implicit, or not) of some exclusivity. Many retailers are "in bed" to some extent with certain makers/distributors and while it may be a "deal with the devil" in the long term, it is of great benefit to the retailer. My point is, it may or may not be in his best short term interest to carry a small number of limited releases, newest and coolest, boutique, or otherwise sticks. Not only does it cost him display space, but it might twist up the knickers of his main supplier. In other words, "don't poop where you sleep" lol.

I'm a huge fan and supporter of the B&M. In my opinion, they provide an invaluable and irreplaceable service to our community. They take the risk of stocking perishable items for our enjoyment and indulgence with very little, or no promise they'll sell. It's a little like selling fish, or produce. There's an expiration date, both in terms of durability as well as public interest. With so many "fly by night" cigar operations out there, who might be the hottest thing since running water today, but might be forgotten in a year, a retailer has to be very careful not to get seduced by the wrong product. Even with lots of product knowledge and market experience, everyone gets caught with their pants down from time to time.


B&M's allow me to go in and pick up 5-10 cigars I'm unfamiliar with, or might only want a few of in my collection. I don't have to make a box-style commitment and I also have the luxury of being able to SEE exactly how they're stored. Speaking of which, the B&M also has the luxury of storing their inventory much closer to where I like to smoke my cigars. Online retailers, for the most part, are forced to store stock much higher in RH than I can enjoy. They do so in order to ward off probable ill-effects of shipping and general transport. Cigars dry out pretty fast in the back of a brown van in July, so subjecting them to humidities of upwards of 75% is common place. Ever try to smoke a 75% RH cigar? Not fun.

[Yarddog]

Yes, some great replies, and some outstanding insight! H&T, I agree with your desire to support your local B&M's, and while I do shop on-line specials to keep the price of my bread and butter smokes down, I do use the B&M's for those 'special' ceegars that I might want to try one or two of. And I believe that FireRunner is spot on with his assessment that rent space is the biggest expense for a retailer, especially out here where it seems that property owners and managers would rather see their spaces vacant and earning nothing than get that extra five bux a square foot.

Tell ya what, though, one pays the price for the amenites. I have been interested in a Diamond Crown Julius Caeser since I read a couple of good reviews. Went into the local upscale store...the one where I bought two cigars lately, about $27.00 worth, a grabbed a lighter that goes for $10-15 anywhere else, the total bill was $67.55...hmmm...that Caesar was north of $22.00...went into a cigar store in Santa Barbara in a strip mall, much friendlier and informative owner, same cigar was a little over $18.00...and the MSRP was a few dollars less.

Yeah, paying over MSRP is pretty much the name of the game in SoCal, and I reckon most consumers haven't checked prices on the Interweb, but you do pay a price for that ambience, and that's something I'm not gonna really get any advantage of. Anyway, love the participation, would like to hear from a boutique cigar maker or two with their philosophies on dealing with the end sellers...

[Demuths1770]

don brought up a good point about stores being sponsored. i know my one local B&M is an official Rocky Patel lounge. he has all kinds of Rocky Patel stuff hanging up and is always posting on facebook about what RP is sending to the shop now. Im not a huge RP fan so i dont get to his shop a lot because he has a huge RP inventory lol. plus he also trash talks a lot about the owner of the shop i go to the most which is the farthest from me. his prices, discount, selection, events, lounge and knowledge is the reason i drive close to 40 minutes to go there.

[Yarddog]

I never considered a store being 'sponsored'...that would certainly skew the game...like a Rocky Patel franchise outlet, I reckon...I haven't seen that yet out here in our area...

[Demuths1770]

I never considered a store being 'sponsored'...that would certainly skew the game...like a Rocky Patel franchise outlet, I reckon...I haven't seen that yet out here in our area...

diamond crown is another one that i know dose it. i have another local shop that has two lounges. the first is the public lounge the second is the members only diamond crown lounge

[allusred]

I never considered a store being 'sponsored'...that would certainly skew the game...like a Rocky Patel franchise outlet, I reckon...I haven't seen that yet out here in our area...

Reminds me of the UK pubs tied to a certain brewer, works very well there, but doesn't seem right for B&Ms here.

[Demuths1770]

Reminds me of the UK pubs tied to a certain brewer, works very well there, but doesn't seem right for B&Ms here.

sponsored my be a bad word for it. i know with the Rockey Patel its because the shop sells alot of rp cigars. by being "sponsored" by them he gets the first chance at new releases gets to sell exclusive rp merchandise and so on. it dose not limit his inventory from other brands or other events. it basically makes him an exclusive Rocky dealer.

[Zeede]

I think it's more like being a preferred retailer.

[Yarddog]

Demuths, I believe that Diamond Crown sponsors one of the stores in my area...they have a bunch of their signs etc in the store.

Interestingly, the Julius Caeser costs over $22 in this sponsored store...which is in the Valencia Towne Mall in Traffic Light Hell. In Santa Barbara, I bought one for $18.

Either way, too much money for this stogie in my opinion.

[Sticky B]

There's a small spot in South Philly that has an "RP Lounge", I suppose it's the same thing. Not a huge RP fan, but I think it's cool that they have a nice little hangout at the B&M with card table, nice chairs, a TV, etc.

And it's possible that it could not have been afforded without that type of sponsorship (I don't know the specifics), even if it does come with the RP logo scrawled all over everything down there :updown:

[Jabba20000]

I am lucky enough to be near a great B&M. I mostly use online but on football days or when need to get out of the house it is a great hang out spot. 1 game equals 2 cigars smoking time I have found.

[droy1958]

A B&M's philosophy is the same as everyone else's. You try to buy a nickel for 2 cents and sell it for a nickel. If the service is good, go for it....Just sayin' if you're not cool with it, check online....Not trying to sound like an @$$....

[B daddy]

Demuths, I believe that Diamond Crown sponsors one of the stores in my area...they have a bunch of their signs etc in the store.

Interestingly, the Julius Caeser costs over $22 in this sponsored store...which is in the Valencia Towne Mall in Traffic Light Hell. In Santa Barbara, I bought one for $18.

Either way, too much money for this stogie in my opinion.

I don't think I've ever smoked a cigar worth $22.

[Yarddog]

I don't think I've ever smoked a cigar worth $22.

Me either, pal...although I've certainly paid that and more for 'em...which I explore in another thread I posted!

[Demuths1770]

A B&M's philosophy is the same as everyone else's. You try to buy a nickel for 2 cents and sell it for a nickel. If the service is good, go for it....Just sayin' if you're not cool with it, check online....Not trying to sound like an @$$....

i know for a fact this is not true with all B&Ms. the local shop i go to has incredible prices to begin with and than you get a 20% discount on top of them. for example a box of ratzillas he sells for 132$ in store with the discount they are around 106$. i really think location, class/age of people coming to the b&m an the owners passion all have a lot to do with the prices as well. find a B&M with a owner that has a passion for cigars that has customers who have a passion for cigar smoking.

[AndyCAYP]

I haven't read the whole thread, so maybe these were answered already. As a guy working at a B&M slash online store, though, here are my thoughts...


What I get from many B&M's...not all...is a surly attitude, like 'if you're not one of the regulars here, I have no time for ya'...

I see this so often in the cigar world. You have to treat your regulars well, and you do form a bond with them because you see them so often, but that's NOT an excuse for treating anyone else with a lesser level of respect and service. It's just not. If I'm ever received that way in a store, I make it a point to never go back. I do my damnedest to treat everyone who walks in my door with the level of courtesy I expect as a consumer.


The second issue is inventory. And primarily, where are all the newer releases?

I'm not going to defend the lack of new releases, but I will offer potential explanations.

First, you hit the nail on the head about rent/mortgage/insurance/payroll being expensive. That unfortunately puts a limit on what a store can spend on product. While there is money to be made in this business, it isn't a cheap business to maintain.

Second, you get to know what type of release will do well with your regular customers and you have to tailor future purchases to that. There's always an outlier, something that becomes super popular even though it doesn't make any sense as to why, but you can't base your purchases on that happening.

Third, and I mean it in the nicest way possible: consumers are picky and illogical. I could have a guy spending $6 per cigar on Brand A who I know, without a doubt, will absolutely love Brand B which sells for only $5 a cigar, and he'll tell me in no uncertain terms where to stick Brand B because it's not his brand. He won't even give it a shot! Or, I'll have a guy bug me and bug me and bug me to bring something in so I will, and he'll buy one cigar from the box and then never touch it again. Or, I'll place an order for something new and the manufacturer will ship me the Petit, Robusto, Corona, Toro, Belicoso, Grande, and Churchill sizes (the Super Toro is backordered) and every customer walking through the door will throw their hands up in disgust because they really want to try the cigar but they all want the Super Toro and it's not on the shelf and they absolutely REFUSE to try any of the other sizes.

The truth is, having $100 in product sit on the shelf and not sell can put a hurtin' on a business owner when it's sitting next to another $100 box not selling which is next to another $100 box not selling... Some stores have to be careful about limiting that. Unfortunately, the consumer suffers in that case.


Or are the proprietors afraid that doing so will affect the sales of their 'bread and butter' inventory, maybe that inventory which produces higher profit margins than might be possible with selling the newer releases?

Profit margins probably won't play a factor as most stores have a minimum markup for everything - with maybe some rare/limited/small batch cigars being marked up even higher. As long as something is selling they're making money, and they typically won't care what product it is.


Is maybe one of the reasons that the distributors of new releases, including but not limited to 'boutique cigars', only willing to ship a certain minimum out to the retailers?

You''re close. A bigger factor is that some manufacturers/distributors have prohibitive shipping terms and that eats way into the profit you'd make bringing in just a few boxes of something on a trial run. There are some, though, that require you to bring in every size of a brand, or at the very least their priority is getting product to the stores who are buying all the sizes so you might be left waiting for a box or two to show up.


I go into stores and say, 'hey, about that Sobremesa?'...and I get the blank stare.

As is the case specifically with Steve Saka/Sobremesa, and with other companies, they won't open up accounts with just anyone. That doesn't mean you have to be uber-special to get their product or that you (as a store owner) should puff your chest out because you're the chosen one, but some of the manufacturers do require that you've met with them in person so that they can vet you - they know you understand their product, they know you won't short-sell their product, they know they can rely on you and you likewise will rely on them. Some expect you to maintain a certain level of sales, or expect you to take a certain amount of shipments no questions asked, and some - at least when they're first starting - are picky only because they don't have a lot of product to go around.

Again, specifically with Steve, I know he was worried about his inventory through February/March. At one time we received a shipment and were basically told "that's it for the next few months". Obviously things change, the factory is able to push your production up by a week or two or shipments of product are moved faster than you expected through customs, but these guys will quickly lose business with retailers if they promise things without delivering.


So, tell me, B&M owners/employees...when your passion becomes your business, do you slowly...maybe quickly...lost interest in your product?

It's different for everyone. It becomes a job, definitely. That's not a negative thing, but it's easy to become cynical about certain things in this industry just like it is for every other industry. While I greatly enjoy talking to cigar and pipe smokers (on a friendly level - not on a "I'm here to sell you something" level), I do know that the last thing on my mind when I leave work is running home to log on and participate on the forums. I spend my whole day talking about cigars, and that's completely awesome (truly it is!), but I find that it's best for me to go home and worry about other things first because I'm off the clock and there are nights when it feels like logging in is work.

That said, when I'm at work there is absolutely no reason or time for cynicism. If I got that way - and this points back to my thoughts above about treating all customers with respect - it's time for me to quit. I don't need to remind myself that I show up every day and get paid to sell cigars... I am doing MY dream job, and I'm doing the job that a lot of guys here dream about doing!


Is the Mighty Margin now become your raison d'etre? Do you not know that the juggernaut, the Mighty Interweb Giant Store, knows more about your products than you do, can sell it for less and easier? And that really, if you can't provide me the service or product I need, I don't need to budge from my computer screen to get what I want?

I have met those cigar store owners, yes... Too many times, to be honest. They couldn't care less about this or that product, they don't get excited about tobacco, they stop learning about the industry beyond what can make them a buck. That's sad. Again, I've met those guys and I've made it a point not to give them my business. This industry is filled with too many amazing people, doing too much amazingly artistic work, and there's too much history involved here, for me to understand how anyone can get that way.

As for the internet: you have to be mindful of it. Overhead is so much lower. Inventory is easier to move because you're now selling to thousands of customers instead of a few hundred. While on one hand it's easier to sell cigars online, it's much harder for me to sell you a cigar because you can't touch it, roll it around in your fingers, smell it, and get excited about the presentation or art surrounding it. I'm a better salesman in person because I've had to learn how to sell a cigar over the phone - and every store, whether they're B&M only or not, should have that same focus to learn about their products, offer valuable opinions about them, and to most importantly learn about YOU so that they know what cigars to offer you.

In the end we - tobacconists - are selling you a vacation. You're grabbing a cigar or a bowlful of pipe tobacco and you're leaving your day-to-day world behind for an hour or two. That should always be special, and we should be here to guide you. That sounds corny, but it's true.

One addition, now that I've flipped through and saw a few responses concerning pricing: don't forget about tobacco tax. When Arturo Fuente releases a cigar with an MSRP of $8, that isn't inclusive of additional taxes. A lot of times people get really upset at stores for being "overpriced" when their anger should be directed at the State for being so unfriendly to tobacco. Obviously that doesn't excuse the instance where this store is selling a cigar for $8 and the store 300 yards up the road is selling it for $12; that's when you need to consider whether the more expensive place is paying a bit more for a higher quality of employee, maybe they're spending more on furnishings and amenities for their customers, maybe they're offering a larger selection, and whether or not those things are important to you as a consumer. There's no right or wrong answer in that case: I don't blame you one bit if you want to buy your cigars as cheaply as possible, the same as I completely understand why you'd pay a little more to go some place a bit nicer.

[Nature]

Thank you AndyCAYP for your candid, open answers! We are truly fortunate to get the perspective of a true insider here on our little forum.
If there wasn't reason enough already, what I have read here encourages me to look to your store for future purchases.

Tried to RG you on this, but I ".. must spread some Reputation around before giving it to AndyCAYP again."

[jhedrick83]

Tried to RG you on this, but I ".. must spread some Reputation around before giving it to AndyCAYP again."

Damnit, me too! Someone(s) please hit him! Very insightful, Andy. Thanks!

[Demuths1770]

Damnit, me too! Someone(s) please hit him! Very insightful, Andy. Thanks!

got him!!!!!!!!

[Zeede]

I got him.

AndyCAYP Awesome post, makes me wish I lived closer to Pennsylvania!

[AndyCAYP]

If there wasn't reason enough already, what I have read here encourages me to look to your store for future purchases.

I just caught this - thanks for the kind words!

I don't expect my participation here to lead to sales but I'm more than happy to work with anyone, regardless of what you're looking for! And as some can attest, pricing is definitely flexible!

[jhedrick83]

I just caught this - thanks for the kind words!

I don't expect my participation here to lead to sales but I'm more than happy to work with anyone, regardless of what you're looking for! And as some can attest, pricing is definitely flexible!

Andy, for those who don't know, where can they find you if they want to? I know Cigars At Your Price (http://cigarsatyourprice.com/) is there anything else?

[Demuths1770]

I got him.

AndyCAYP Awesome post, makes me wish I lived closer to Pennsylvania!

love living in pa!!! some of the best cigar shops around in my opinion

[AndyCAYP]

Andy, for those who don't know, where can they find you if they want to? I know Cigars At Your Price (http://cigarsatyourprice.com/) is there anything else?

Sheesh, you're doing promoting for me!

CAYP is definitely the main draw, but we also have the more straightforward niceashcigars.com - your neighborhood tobacconist on the web! (http://www.niceashcigars.com)

For those who like the CAYP idea but want a simplified experience, please PM me... I won't say anything more here other than that.

[Yarddog]

AndyCAYP, thanks VERY much for your post! That was exactly the type of response I was looking for! From somebody who could put me, and anybody else wanting to know, into the heads of a B&M owner! Truly, it's a tough business...not so certain I'd want to compete with the cyber world if I was trying to make a living!

Appreciate your insight and time, sir!

[Herf N Turf]

Reminds me of the UK pubs tied to a certain brewer, works very well there, but doesn't seem right for B&Ms here.


I never considered a store being 'sponsored'...that would certainly skew the game...like a Rocky Patel franchise outlet, I reckon...I haven't seen that yet out here in our area...

More often than not, these "sponsorships" aren't wildly overt. General Cigar Co and Altadis have been doing this for decades with hardly anyone even noticing. They'll come in and give you a large cabinet humidor, a bunch of ashtrays, a dozen lighters and a couple of attractive humidors if you buy a certain level of product. You're not allowed to put anyone else's product in the humidor and their stuff has to have specific visibility and you may be required to put up signage for them.

Point being, there are all sorts of schemes, from being a full on Diamond Crown lounge, to just being a preferred retailer of a certain brand.


Thank you AndyCAYP for your candid, open answers! We are truly fortunate to get the perspective of a true insider here on our little forum.
If there wasn't reason enough already, what I have read here encourages me to look to your store for future purchases.

Tried to RG you on this, but I ".. must spread some Reputation around before giving it to AndyCAYP again."


Damnit, me too! Someone(s) please hit him! Very insightful, Andy. Thanks!

I got him too! GREAT post!

[allusred]

Quote Originally Posted by Herf N Turf .
"More often than not, these "sponsorships" aren't wildly overt. General Cigar Co and Altadis have been doing this for decades with hardly anyone even noticing. They'll come in and give you a large cabinet humidor, a bunch of ashtrays, a dozen lighters and a couple of attractive humidors if you buy a certain level of product. You're not allowed to put anyone else's product in the humidor and their stuff has to have specific visibility and you may be required to put up signage for them."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Just three towns away from me, only a few miles, there's a shop with the old overhead OPTIMO sign accross the front.
Hadn't thought of that until reading the above post, but doubtless there are quite a few shops still sporting those signs., tho the Optimos may no longer fill a lot of the shelf space, Acid certainly does in the shop nearby.

[AndyCAYP]

More often than not, these "sponsorships" aren't wildly overt. General Cigar Co and Altadis have been doing this for decades with hardly anyone even noticing. They'll come in and give you a large cabinet humidor, a bunch of ashtrays, a dozen lighters and a couple of attractive humidors if you buy a certain level of product. You're not allowed to put anyone else's product in the humidor and their stuff has to have specific visibility and you may be required to put up signage for them.

Point being, there are all sorts of schemes, from being a full on Diamond Crown lounge, to just being a preferred retailer of a certain brand.

I got him too! GREAT post!

Thanks for the bumps!

As for the sponsorship: Altadis, General, and to a lesser extent Drew Estate, are now doing lounges too. They'll give you a certain amount of money to refurbish your space, of which a certain amount needs to be spent on branded items. For instance, we have a Montecristo lounge and when we switched to that we ended up with some really nice MC art, an MC pool table, MC-branded light fixtures, paint using their color scheme, etc. Of course, we're expected to maintain a certain level of MC inventory at all times, as well as other Altadis products (mostly Romeo y Julieta, although depending on the whims of our rep we may have to buy-in on other brands at different times) but doing so gets us exclusive access to certain Montecristo cigars that "normal" stores aren't authorized to carry.

From what I've seen in this area the cabinet promotions are a thing of the past. Altadis was the only company really doing them in this region and most of their "Cabinet Selection" SKUs have been discontinued... I still see the cabinets in shops (we have one), but by this point most of the stores I've noticed them in are using them for other things. It's definitely an effective tool if the store is set up right: if forces certain cigars to be the first cigars a consumer would see when entering the store, and that actually can catch some sales if the consumer doesn't really know what they're looking for.

As for other advertising, things differ a lot by region and/or by sales rep. Some reps, if they've been with the company for a long time, have the ability to set up their own promotions which is always nice. Not for nothing, but a lot of manufacturers have tightened their purse strings of late and a lot of the time the best you'll get out of them is some shelf-talkers to hang near their product hoping to drive traffic to it.

[AndyCAYP]

In the interest of self-promotion, I'm going to bump this once:

For those who like the Cigars At Your Price idea but want a simplified experience, please PM me...