Blending Experiment

[NeverBend]

A few months ago I asked for intrepid volunteers from the site to shell out some cash to participate in a tobacco blending experiment. They had faith in me that I hope has been warranted.

At first it was to sample some of my mixtures but a wrinkle was added where the participants conceived and then created their own custom formula.

It's a lot of work so the number of participants was limited. We've gone through two rounds of samples with another round anticipated.

@Chico.Ortiz108, @EmperorZurg, BryGuySC, GWBowman, OnePyroTec, @AlligatorGar, Lostmason are the primary participants and JimInks and cpmcdill have also been sent a few samples. Sorry that I can't accommodate any more.

This thread is for the discussion of this blending experiment.

I asked the guys to conceptualize and state what they would like. Everyone described their intentions and in most cases I blended their formula and then created my take on what they asked for so that there were 2 custom samples. Everyone names their mixtures and gets the blending formula. To those who have not yet received their custom mixtures, pardons, they will be forthcoming.

I've been attempting to recreate some of the old Elephant & Castle mixtures and a couple of semi-aromatics that I used to make many years ago but some new mixtures have presented themselves during the process.

My mixtures - samples sent:
Blood Meridian
Red Ronnett's Sonnett
Tomas Hariot
Brave New World (E&C New World)
Cromwell (E&C)
The Professor (semi-aromatic)
Einstein (semi-aromatic)

My mixtures still in development:
The Stout (E&C)
The Roanoke (E&C)

Your comments, questions and feedback are most appreciated.

Regards,

Pete

[Lostmason]

Well it looks as though I get to start, Pete, NeverBend , Your skills are amazing.If I lived closer you'ld be kicking me out
so you could get work done.

Autumn Breakfast, the blend you made for me is everything I had expected and more. The toasted nut and light citrus twang with
just a hint of spice to keep it fresh are a wonderfull light smoke to start the day.The flavors carry and seem to enhance as the
burn gets deeper and makes for a delightful expierience.

Your version has a more full bodied flavor with the spice coming through more, I like it just as much but for a different time of day.
This would be a blend I would enjoy more after work when I need something stronger to cut thru the stress of the day.The burley
and virginias are a bit harder to distinguish with the izmur coming to the top.I've bottled it and will get some lemon waters/teas and
try it again after a few days.

Sample "A" has a wonderful pouch note, but the smoke seemed airy and flavorless, hence the thread on dampened palette. So before
I go further I will be first trying to correct my issue with a little time and some lemon teas.

Thank you for this opportunity, I'm learning so much more than I ever would have on my own.

Matt

[AndyCAYP]

Sounds like Pete's work needs to be more widely available.

Just sayin'...

[Alligator Gar]

I have smoked all four samples. I am now on my second pass of C and D samples.
I like C very much and would reach for it as part of my rotation. It smells great in the bag. Has lots of VA and a darker tasting tobacco, maybe a Perique and a pinch of Lat. Balanced and transitional, moving from a bright citrus twang to a lower thrum as the bowl progresses. Hallmark of Pete's tobacco is the clean, dry burn. I really like the cut of the leaves, much like my signature blends. A little chunky, leaf is distinct and I believe that aids the flavor bumps I crave.

Blend D is a bit of a mystery to me. It may be a VaBur and might have some Kentucky. Or not. It tastes "tobacco-y" which is a hallmark of Burley, in my limited experience. It has a little kick and a more sour note. It goes out a couple times, which is rare in my case since I'm a fast smoker. The retrohale is pungent and not super enjoyable. No bite, another hallmark of Pete's work. Tastes the same going in as going out, would be okay if you were working and didn't want to be distracted. I'd rather be distracted.

So far, I'd love a tin of C with about a year on it. The only better blend so far is my Outdoor Incense, which is an Oriental forward bombshell. That stuff is money!

[NeverBend]

Sample "A" has a wonderful pouch note, but the smoke seemed airy and flavorless, hence the thread on dampened palette. So before
I go further I will be first trying to correct my issue with a little time and some lemon teas.

Hi Matt,

Tobacco mixtures or cigars can taste fine when first blended but then lose flavor for a while, so it may not be you. Mixture A is on the subtle side anyway so it might be more distinct in a briar rather than a cob. Please give it a try in a few days and, beating the dead horse, mix it up.



I have smoked all four samples. I am now on my second pass of C and D samples.
I like C very much and would reach for it as part of my rotation. It smells great in the bag. Has lots of VA and a darker tasting tobacco, maybe a Perique and a pinch of Lat. Balanced and transitional, moving from a bright citrus twang to a lower thrum as the bowl progresses. Hallmark of Pete's tobacco is the clean, dry burn. I really like the cut of the leaves, much like my signature blends. A little chunky, leaf is distinct and I believe that aids the flavor bumps I crave.

Blend D is a bit of a mystery to me. It may be a VaBur and might have some Kentucky. Or not. It tastes "tobacco-y" which is a hallmark of Burley, in my limited experience. It has a little kick and a more sour note. It goes out a couple times, which is rare in my case since I'm a fast smoker. The retrohale is pungent and not super enjoyable. No bite, another hallmark of Pete's work. Tastes the same going in as going out, would be okay if you were working and didn't want to be distracted. I'd rather be distracted.

So far, I'd love a tin of C with about a year on it. The only better blend so far is my Outdoor Incense, which is an Oriental forward bombshell. That stuff is money!

Mixture C is a finished blend (final version).

Mixture D may have some of the effect that I mentioned to Matt above and both A & D (not the ointment) could use some time as they share some similar components. I've tried A with age and it's much better but haven't had aged D.

Glad that you like the Outdoor Incense. I blend with smyrna, izmir and macedonian (not always together) and I'm getting the feel of balancing them. The macedonian looks tiny (leaves) and harmless but it's the most potent of the three.

[c.ortiz108]

Tried both A and B today. I found that Alligator Gar's comments about D to be pretty relevant to A, actually. Otherwise, it gave off lots of smoke, which I like, but I found it to be almost cigarette-like. The smoke seemed dry somehow, like burning leaves (non-tobacco leaves) or paper. It seemed harsh to me, and though it didn't bite it kind of irritated my throat and sinuses. I don't know if that's Burley or the specific combination of ingredients or what. I'll give it some down time and try it again, but so far this one is not for me.

B on the other hand I found immensely enjoyable! Nice rich VA flavors, and it just seemed to get better and better, and more complex as I made my way down the bowl. A figgy fruitiness, a distinct floral quality about halfway through, and a surprising hint of mustard on occasion (or maybe I'm just weird). I'm guessing there's Perique in there because there's also some pepper. It smoked smooth and easy and left hardly any dottle. A very nice smoke.

Pete, will you reveal identities and basic components once everyone has weighed in?

Looking forward to progressing on to C and D!

[Alligator Gar]

Tried both A and B today. I found that Alligator Gar's comments about D to be pretty relevant to A, actually. Otherwise, it gave off lots of smoke, which I like, but I found it to be almost cigarette-like. The smoke seemed dry somehow, like burning leaves (non-tobacco leaves) or paper. It seemed harsh to me, and though it didn't bite it kind of irritated my throat and sinuses. I don't know if that's Burley or the specific combination of ingredients or what. I'll give it some down time and try it again, but so far this one is not for me.

B on the other hand I found immensely enjoyable! Nice rich VA flavors, and it just seemed to get better and better, and more complex as I made my way down the bowl. A figgy fruitiness, a distinct floral quality about halfway through, and a surprising hint of mustard on occasion (or maybe I'm just weird). I'm guessing there's Perique in there because there's also some pepper. It smoked smooth and easy and left hardly any dottle. A very nice smoke.

Pete, will you reveal identities and basic components once everyone has weighed in?

Looking forward to progressing on to C and D!

B had a bright, hay start with a little citrus. Might be a VaPer, might be a straight VA mix with maybe a little KY. Too lively for my tastes, but again, no bite and clean burn. Burns hot in the bowl, but it's pretty dry. Eminently smokeable.

[c.ortiz108]

B had a bright, hay start with a little citrus. Might be a VaPer, might be a straight VA mix with maybe a little KY. Too lively for my tastes, but again, no bite and clean burn. Burns hot in the bowl, but it's pretty dry. Eminently smokeable.

I did smoke it straight after A, so that might have made me miss things. I'll try it with a fresh palate next time.

[Lynn]

dang ya guy's just had to do that postin thing....now ya had me reddin an reddin ..whatca tryin to do keep me busy reddin...

[Alligator Gar]

I did smoke it straight after A, so that might have made me miss things. I'll try it with a fresh palate next time.

Try C tomorrow. She's pick of the litter. Enjoying a bowl right now.

[Lynn]

I swear ol NeverBend musta been like pipe tobacco born......caint hardly keep up with the stuff he keeps postin....

[Desertlifter]

Blending stuff is fun. More so with a good mentor - great work, gentlemen!

[Lostmason]

dang ya guy's just had to do that postin thing....now ya had me reddin an reddin ..whatca tryin to do keep me busy reddin...

Sumtin ta do whilest yer smokin Bubba...:pipe:

Just finish a bowl of "C" in my DG Savoy.I like this one alot, I tasted a almost creamy flavor as well as the citrus.A smooth easy smoke that would be great for introducing newbs to our side of smoking.The flavors are enjoyable with just enough spice to keep iy fresh.

[Lostmason]

Smoking sample "A" in a meerschaum, it is rather dry and has a hint of pepper around the edges.I agree with Jim in that it's a lot like a cigarette.The retro has a bit of burn not so much I quit trying.Tobacco is fairly easy to pack and light, and would make for a good work smoke.Seems pretty simple and I guess this is what you mean by one dimensional, but all in all a nice quick smoke to work by.

[Lostmason]

Smoking sample "D" in my DG Savoy.The pouch note reminds me of honey and sweet hay.It's a little on the moist side but not wet,packed and lit as easy as the others.Have to slow myself down a bit,the moisture is causing a small bit of tongue bite.It tastes like a toasted virginia,citrus with a smokiness.A hint of sweetness.The retro has just a hint of burn but a lot of twang,really adds to the bowl.I like this sample,it's got good character and even taste.Feels good,
a nice cozy smoke.

[c.ortiz108]

Tried C tonight - the other guys are right, you have a winner here, Pete! Creamy, rich and satisfying, with great incense-like notes. Possibly my favorite of all your new blends so far (along with the Professor and Thomas Hariot).

[Lynn]

Now come on..you guys must be getin a little tipsy there...aint none of ya writ like that before.....I want some of what ya drinkin...

[Lostmason]

Now come on..you guys must be getin a little tipsy there...aint none of ya writ like that before.....I want some of what ya drinkin...

It is amazing how many IQ points Pete can pack into a bowl of tobacco.

[Lynn]

It is amazing how many IQ points Pete can pack into a bowl of tobacco.

Im confused all the time...an that internet reedin is takin up postin time.....

[c.ortiz108]

Now come on..you guys must be getin a little tipsy there...aint none of ya writ like that before.....I want some of what ya drinkin...

You must have missed the Mixture No. 79 contests! This place is lousy with highbrow writer-types when it comes to reviewing tobacco.

[Lynn]

You must have missed the Mixture No. 79 contests! This place is lousy with highbrow writer-types when it comes to reviewing tobacco.

I aint got no top hat just a stetson..neverbend has me reedin all the time with his posts..that BUM is bad news within his descriptions...

[NeverBend]

Evening Gents,

You say that Mixture A tastes like cigarette tobacco? That didn't sound right so I tried it. No, it's tastes like bad cigarette tobacco.

Mixture B has a heavy citrus top note and is one-dimensional? (well, I found this on my own). Not supposed to be that way.

I think I have some answers.

Mixture C is the only one with Latakia. Mixture D was made much more recently, never jarred and it (like Mixture C) has a strong component.

Mixtures A, B & C were all made in mid-September and then stored under forced hand pressure in 2 mason jars per blend. Just before shipping your samples I combined and gave them a good re-mixing and my remaining samples are re-mixed now too. The re-mixing, I believe, caused the phenomena that I earlier explained to Matt where newly blended tobacco tastes flat. Not sure what it's called or exactly what's going on but it's the other side of the effect is where a newly opened tin will improve with a few days (I call it decanting), especially if it has some age. I'll refer to the phenomena as Aeration Affect (AA). When mixed you need to lose some and when opened you need to add some. Make sense?

I always encounter AA when I blend (non-aromatics) and I make allowance for that. Right out of the blending bowl mixtures tend to be one-dimensional but they gain complexity starting in a week or so. I blended Mixture A last August as a test of ribbon Virginia types and it was a dud. Probably tasted like bad cigarette tobacco but it was so forgettable that I forget how bad it tasted and it languished in a mason jar for a year. Tried it this September and it was very different, (13 months). Aromatics don't exhibit much AA. Lesson for Pete, re-mix of relatively new blended tobacco has strong AA.

I'm smoking (as I write) Mixture C (from the same, re-mixed, sample batch sent to you) and the latakia is too pronounced because the other flavors are muted, but it's closer to intent than either Mixture A or B taste like right now. Mixtures with a strongly flavored or acidic component(s) don't seem to be as AA flat but you taste too much of that component.

Your samples of Mixture B uses Lemon VA instead of Bright VA (used in my earlier tests) and that could be part of the citrus top note along with AA. The extra acid in the Lemon VA comes through and this mixture tastes one-dimensional.

Mixture D was blended on 10-14 and sent without having been stored or re-mixed so I'd imagine that the flavors are somewhat more distinct although it too has some AA from initial blending. Cigar makers advise waiting 30 days after rolling to smoke a cigar, so that may be a good benchmark for these mixtures, meaning that they should start to come to life in a couple of weeks. My apologies and despite my earlier reminders to re-mix, do so gently since I suspect (now) that vigorous mixing amplified the AA.

None of your personal mixtures were re-mixed but they may be better in a couple of weeks as well.

My thoughts on what age will do to each mixture:
A = I know that it blooms with age and sucks with AA. I have to wait but I was going to mix a pound of this for myself.
B = I changed Bright VA to Lemon VA and that may be the amplified citrus but the batch (that led to your samples) became nice ~8 weeks out from blending. The citrus should recede and it should gain considerable complexity.
C = This is a finished blend, as long as I can reproduce it regularly (I had thought that I could). The latakia prevents it from being flat like the others but it won't be as intended until the AA wears off and then the latakia is more in a supporting role.
D = Needs a lot more time than it has had, as you have it. It needs to assimilate and smooth one of the components (especially). I suspect it will be much better with about 6 months of age.

I was smoking samples of Mixtures A through C for a few weeks before I re-mixed them and they were on track. Hope we can get back to that point soon and my apologies for holding up the show.

Regards,

Pete

[NeverBend]

Some blending notes:

I found a decent Perique but it's not (and never will be like the original St. James). I now have a single varietal of Carolina but haven't yet started to test blend with it.

One of you has a version of Thomas Hariot made with this Perique instead of Kentucky Dark Fired.

Made one of the remaining personal mixtures today and I've put it in the press. I hope to have the rest of the personal mixtures done and sent by this coming week.

Oriental tobaccos are transplanted Virginia strains. Just as Cuban seed in countries like Nicaragua have become unique and special over time, so it would appear that this has occurred with Orientals.

Smyrna is the lighter and more subtle. Overwhelm it and it disappears. With time it develops into a nice cream. Lightly spiced.
Izmir is more coarse and heavy in flavor but it works well in with other Orientals and latakia. Comes through without being featured and can add some sour character.
Macedonian is a tiny cut that looks innocuous but it packs the biggest punch. Must be used in condiment amounts, (<10%) but it adds some deep character and Eastern spice.

They work together well and can add complexity, depth, spice and nuance. Less nicotine than burley but more than VA (in most cases).

[BryGuySC]

Evening Gents,

You say that Mixture A tastes like cigarette tobacco? That didn't sound right so I tried it. No, it's tastes like bad cigarette tobacco.

Mixture B has a heavy citrus top note and is one-dimensional? (well, I found this on my own). Not supposed to be that way.

I think I have some answers.

Mixture C is the only one with Latakia. Mixture D was made much more recently, never jarred and it (like Mixture C) has a strong component.

Mixtures A, B & C were all made in mid-September and then stored under forced hand pressure in 2 mason jars per blend. Just before shipping your samples I combined and gave them a good re-mixing and my remaining samples are re-mixed now too. The re-mixing, I believe, caused the phenomena that I earlier explained to Matt where newly blended tobacco tastes flat. Not sure what it's called or exactly what's going on but it's the other side of the effect is where a newly opened tin will improve with a few days (I call it decanting), especially if it has some age. I'll refer to the phenomena as Aeration Affect (AA). When mixed you need to lose some and when opened you need to add some. Make sense?

I always encounter AA when I blend (non-aromatics) and I make allowance for that. Right out of the blending bowl mixtures tend to be one-dimensional but they gain complexity starting in a week or so. I blended Mixture A last August as a test of ribbon Virginia types and it was a dud. Probably tasted like bad cigarette tobacco but it was so forgettable that I forget how bad it tasted and it languished in a mason jar for a year. Tried it this September and it was very different, (13 months). Aromatics don't exhibit much AA. Lesson for Pete, re-mix of relatively new blended tobacco has strong AA.

I'm smoking (as I write) Mixture C (from the same, re-mixed, sample batch sent to you) and the latakia is too pronounced because the other flavors are muted, but it's closer to intent than either Mixture A or B taste like right now. Mixtures with a strongly flavored or acidic component(s) don't seem to be as AA flat but you taste too much of that component.

Your samples of Mixture B uses Lemon VA instead of Bright VA (used in my earlier tests) and that could be part of the citrus top note along with AA. The extra acid in the Lemon VA comes through and this mixture tastes one-dimensional.

Mixture D was blended on 10-14 and sent without having been stored or re-mixed so I'd imagine that the flavors are somewhat more distinct although it too has some AA from initial blending. Cigar makers advise waiting 30 days after rolling to smoke a cigar, so that may be a good benchmark for these mixtures, meaning that they should start to come to life in a couple of weeks. My apologies and despite my earlier reminders to re-mix, do so gently since I suspect (now) that vigorous mixing amplified the AA.

None of your personal mixtures were re-mixed but they may be better in a couple of weeks as well.

My thoughts on what age will do to each mixture:
A = I know that it blooms with age and sucks with AA. I have to wait but I was going to mix a pound of this for myself.
B = I changed Bright VA to Lemon VA and that may be the amplified citrus but the batch (that led to your samples) became nice ~8 weeks out from blending. The citrus should recede and it should gain considerable complexity.
C = This is a finished blend, as long as I can reproduce it regularly (I had thought that I could). The latakia prevents it from being flat like the others but it won't be as intended until the AA wears off and then the latakia is more in a supporting role.
D = Needs a lot more time than it has had, as you have it. It needs to assimilate and smooth one of the components (especially). I suspect it will be much better with about 6 months of age.

I was smoking samples of Mixtures A through C for a few weeks before I re-mixed them and they were on track. Hope we can get back to that point soon and my apologies for holding up the show.

Regards,

Pete

Thanks for all of this interesting info, Pete!
My family is going camping this weekend, and I'm bringing the A-D blends so I can take some baseline notes for comparison later.

[c.ortiz108]

Thanks, Pete - interesting stuff. So I guess AA is almost like pipe tobacco's "sick period." Is it that the tobaccos need some time to meld, and basically settle into being blended, and the aeration inhibits that?

I think you're selling B short, 'cause I enjoyed it! But I'm looking forward to trying it again in another few weeks to see how it develops. I'll be interested to see how C changes, too, since I liked that one so much already. I may just give D a try this weekend so I can see how it changes, too, then leave it (and A) for 6 months as you say.

[AndyCAYP]

This has been an amazing read for someone who's new to blending, but wanting to soak up as much info as possible. Pete, you're great.

Not to take this off track, but are you sourcing your leaf from one place or a mixture of vendors?

[Emperor Zurg]

Evening Gents,

You say that Mixture A tastes like cigarette tobacco? That didn't sound right so I tried it. No, it's tastes like bad cigarette tobacco.


Mixture A is the only sample I've tried besides the 2 custom blends Pete made for me.

First, let me say that I only ever tried 1 cigarette probably 30 years ago so I don't remember much of what they tasted like... I seem to remember a rather acrid flavor along with the taste of burning paper. This tobacco didn't taste like that.

I won't say I was blown away by it or anything but it didn't seem all that bad to me. I've only had 1 bowl of it - and a small one at that - but my initial impressions were that it was pretty sweet up front with a nutty characteristic. As the bowl burned down, it began to remind me of that smell you pick up when you crack open roasted almonds - not that of the almond itself but of the cracking shell. I'll have a few more tries at it here in the near future.

Taking it a bit slow and alternating between the two customs. A report will be forthcoming.

[Alligator Gar]

Before this thread existed I sent my initial tasting notes to Pete. The two blends were Seminole Red and Outdoor Incense. The SR was envisioned as having the VA heavy sweetness and tang offset by a burley nut and some Lat creaminess. Also a smidgen of Oriental. As you read on you will discover I did a terrible job of explaining my concept. The second blend, Outdoor Incense, was a more focused idea and the results were consistent with the vision. The genesis of OI was the smell of Piñon pine burning in the air during fall evenings in the American Southwest. I also wanted to capture the smell of incense during High Mass at Cathedrale Notre-Dame, or at least make my back porch smell like it. Here are the notes:

Initial feedback. Surprised on both counts. The Seminole Red was not as sweet and fruity (ripe) as I'd hoped. Maybe drop back on the Black Cav and/or the bright VA and add red flake. Maybe less burley, though burley and red are very complimentary, IMHO. (Pretty sure it's not the burley upsetting the apple cart.) Maybe it needs a spot of perique, but I'm not looking for another VaPer, per se. I will need to smoke and study, smoke and study. It is complex with lots of shifts, which I like in a tobacco. Needs more gravitas, more dark draperies smothering the brightness of the everyday. Maybe a simple addition of moisture will help. Burned perfectly, no bite.
Not so with Outdoor Incense. From the name to the pack, burn and taste, it is dead on. Wouldn't change a thing. The Izmir adds that je ne sais quoi I look for and crave. It is close to Star of the East, piquant, bright, censorial and heady. The bottom of the bowl really boasts a bass note when the bright burns away. I know I'm mixing my metaphors but I'm kind of excited right now!

Pete speculated that it was indeed a case of burly-blocking in the first blend. He has some tweaks in mind and I'll grudgingly keep smoking some unbelievable custom blended tobacco in the mean time! :encouragement: Thanks Pete.

[Alligator Gar]

Reposted in the correct thread.

[NeverBend]

The phenomena that I'm calling Aeration Affect exists but I'm assuming that this is the reason for the samples to be flat. I blend with the tobacco on the dry side, facilitates more even mixing and avoids clumping, and then I mist the finished mixture and I did mist (lightly) the the re-mixed samples so this could have played a part. I smoked all of the mixtures (several times each) before shipping and they were good to go so I hope (expect) that I'm correct in my hypothesis.

It's also possible that they're just rubbish :).

[NeverBend]

Thanks, Pete - interesting stuff. So I guess AA is almost like pipe tobacco's "sick period." Is it that the tobaccos need some time to meld, and basically settle into being blended, and the aeration inhibits that?

I think you're selling B short, 'cause I enjoyed it! But I'm looking forward to trying it again in another few weeks to see how it develops. I'll be interested to see how C changes, too, since I liked that one so much already. I may just give D a try this weekend so I can see how it changes, too, then leave it (and A) for 6 months as you say.

First, I'm not going to LIKE or THANK for posts in this thread because they're all good (OK, @Lynn (http://www.cigarbum.com/forum/members/lynn.html) made me laugh and I LIKED :)).

I'm unfamiliar with the term "sick period" but I know the phenomenon. This post (from Puff Forum in 2006 by @Blaylock (http://www.cigarbum.com/forum/members/blaylock.html)) explains it pretty well (NC = New Cigar).

Basically the "sick period" that you are referring to is usually gone by the time you buy NCs. Manufacturers usually wait several months and longer, after they are rolled, before sending them to vendors for sale. It is my understanding that Cuban cigars may be shipped much sooner.

Something I found which might be helpful:

"But among manufacturers for the U.S. market, in the Dominican Republic, Honduras, Nicaragua and other countries, the length of time between when leaves are harvested and when they are rolled into cigars is longer, sometimes much longer (like in years). This helps reduce the ammoniac element. And there are manufacturers who hold their made and boxed cigars for weeks up to months to provide some in-the-box aging that will further eliminate the ammonia problem. Thus, most – but not all – cigars on U.S. smokeshop shelves have already passed through the problem stage."

Quote from MRN's book on Cuban Cigars:
The “sick period” is marked by the unpleasant smell of ammonia when smelling the cigars. Nee notes that this is due to the continuing fermentation of the leaves once rolled into cigars and will go away as the cigars are ventilated. He believes that for most cigars, “the ammoniac smell will be over 90% gone in a few months, 95% to 99% gone by the end of the first year and practically all gone by the end of the second year.”

The Cigar Boom of the mid 1990s found a lot of product being rushed to market and this became a generic problem. The first 30 days after rolling a cigar is when the taste goes flat (thus holding the made cigars for several weeks - as above). I can't say that this is the problem with the samples but for our purposes, I have no problem calling it Sick Period (SP) or Aeration Affect (AA) since I'm not sure exactly what's going on and they may or may not be the same thing.

I'll refer to Mixture B as either Batch #1 or Batch #2.

Batch #1 was blended several months ago and it was very close to concept but I anticipated that it might smooth too much so I changed the Bright Virginia for Lemon Virginia, that's the only change. My expectation was that the Lemon VA would add some acid, brighter flavor, pick up a couple of important condiments and add a light citrus nuance (not forward note).

Batch #2 is blended with Lemon VA and is the sample that you have. Before re-mixing, and shipping to you, Batch #2 was brighter, a bit lighter and I hoped that it would settle into my desired results. Since the re-mixing it smokes as a bright citrus note and is otherwise flat at this point. I think that some of you have experienced the same. I only have about a few grams of Batch #1 remaining that I must use for control so I can't send it to you (all) or even a single person for comparison, apologies. Same problem with all of the other Mixtures.

I'm smoking Batch #1 now (not what you have). As anticipated it's very smooth and subtle with some primary flavors a touch more muted than desired but it's certainly not flat. Consistent flavor that builds strength throughout the bowl. More nicotine hit than I'd anticipated and very creamy (as desired).

[BryGuySC]

I took a couple of the "Letter blends" with us on our weekend camping trip.
Blend B has something in it that almost immediately makes my tongue numb. The same thing happened with the Thomas Harriott blend. I assume it is just a body chemistry thing, but I'll let it rest and give it and the Thomas Harriott another try after it rests a while.

Blend C was perfect for an overcast weekend. I rather enjoyed it. I smoked several bowls of this and the Sunbaked Soda City Pete blended. I'll let the rest of Blend C rest a while to see how it evolves.

[GWBowman]

I seem to be running behind. I've smoked four bowls of A; a MM Cob Legend, two old Brewsters, a Dr. G Savoy in that order. The first couple of bowls started lightly sweet, a little dried fruit (like the jar note) and transitioned into a little spice. The last of the bowl turned acidic and bitey. The third bowl was less sweet and less acidic. I couldn't put my finger on the taste til I read someone saying cigarette. The last bowl had no sweetness, no acid, no bite. That bad cigarette was the official taste of that bowl. Gonna put it away for a while and load some B in a Grand Duke.

[NeverBend]

This has been an amazing read for someone who's new to blending, but wanting to soak up as much info as possible. Pete, you're great.

Not to take this off track, but are you sourcing your leaf from one place or a mixture of vendors?

Hi Andy,

Sorry for the delay in response, somehow I missed your post until now.

I buy P&C, C&D and a little from Stokkebye, McClelland and Gawith Hoggarth. I've tried a lot of blenders and have culled to about 25 tobaccos that are in my palate.

I like single varietals more than blends of a particular tobacco type. I do use a blend of Bright Virginia but more often I'll use straight Lemon Virginia. Same with Orientals, where I use no blends and I prefer burley individual varietals when possible.

I look for leaf quality, how it tastes and burns, how well it blends (behaves well), the cut and price.

Regards,

Pete

[NeverBend]

I seem to be running behind. I've smoked four bowls of A; a MM Cob Legend, two old Brewsters, a Dr. G Savoy in that order. The first couple of bowls started lightly sweet, a little dried fruit (like the jar note) and transitioned into a little spice. The last of the bowl turned acidic and bitey. The third bowl was less sweet and less acidic. I couldn't put my finger on the taste til I read someone saying cigarette. The last bowl had no sweetness, no acid, no bite. That bad cigarette was the official taste of that bowl. Gonna put it away for a while and load some B in a Grand Duke.

Good and accurate comments George.

Mixture A has some Smyrna and that was all I tasted when I tried it yesterday, no Red VA flavor at all. I also tried Mixture C and it's Latakia has faded from prominence and that's partially by design but the other flavors (Virginia most notably) still haven't arrived. Frustrating :).

[Emperor Zurg]

I've been alternating between the two versions of the blend Pete made up for me. I think I will call this blend 'English Springer Spaniel' because a)I love those dogs b)it's a light English, and c)if Nording can name a blend after a dog than I can too.

I'm not sure which blend is 'mine' and which blend is Pete's take on it. One is in a baggie within a zip lock and the other is just in a zip lock. I think the baggie within a zip lock is Pete's version and I'll try to verify that by going thru my emails on the subject. But with that as the assumption for now...

Neither version is over the top citrusy like I'd hoped. However, neither is overtly floral or earthy so that's a plus.

My version is ok but it's rather 2 dimensional. There is a fleeting, toffee like sweetness that presents itself once in a while about mid bowl but it's very faint and doesn't show itself often. It's more citrusy than floral or earthy but the sample of Pete's own standard English blend that he sent me last year was a far more enjoyable tobacco - far more citrusy too.

Pete's version of the concept is much more complex. There's some Macedonian (I think...) in the mix that must lend a spicy note that my version lacks. Although there's much less yellow VA percentage wise, the blend seems equally citrusy and sweet. So far I like this one better.

Just wanted to post some initial thoughts. I'll post more later.

[GWBowman]

Smoked a couple of bowls of B, one in a Grand Duke and one in a Irish Second. The jar note I got was sweet tobacco, raisin and a little spice. The tobacco burned well but has already been said, it was airy with little to no taste. Probably load some C tomorrow night.

[cpmcdill]

*Blend C

Smoked this a few times in different pipes to get a better sense of it. Opening the bag, the fragrance within reveals the smoky promise of Latakia. Good moisture level, and takes a light easily. At this time I'm smoking it in a MM cob. The flavor of the smoke is mild and creamy, with the Latakia being less noticeable than I'd have expected from the pouch note. I can't really make out what the other component tobaccos are. Produces plenty of smoke with light puffing. Overall impression: It will probably improve if jarred for a few more months. Needs a bit more marrying.

*Blend D

Pleasant smelling in the bag, looks like a blend of about 3 tobaccos, though I can't tell what. On first lighting (in a lovat) I'm picking up the grassy flavor of Virginia flake. Not much sweetness but a bit of spice. There's a richness here, though also a roughness that should smooth out with some aging. Can't be sure but guessing the other components are fire cured and perique? Goes out a lot, and have had to relight several times. Strong puffing risks tongue bite, so one has to puff with a gentle cadence. Halfway through the bowl a hint of bitterness emerges, but just a hint. Overall: pretty good. I will jar the rest a few months and revisit.

*"Stout" Blend

The sticker on the baggie says "(New) Stout, Mix Unfinished." A sniff tells me it is a Latakia blend. Smells really good. Takes a light very well, and initial impression is that it's a solid English, with more flavor than blend C above. There is a bit of sweetness coming through. Took a few relights, but not as much as Blend D. Finished as good as it started with no major changes. I find this one to be ready to smoke now, so I'll probably just finish off the baggie instead of aging it.

[NeverBend]

Smoking some Mixture B (batch #2) as I write.

The flavors are emerging and it's getting close to what it's conceived to be but it's still a bit aggressive and not as cohesive as the batch that's a couple of months older and spot on.

[Lostmason]

Smoked a bowl of Autumn Breakfast in a meerschaum today,seems the stoved virginia and the smyrna are coming out more.The burley has decidedly step to the background and the nut flavors are very faint.Still a phenominal smoking expierience for me,I'm still trying to find my niche in the differing blends and mixtures.This mixture ,with a little age on it, has taken on a bit more complexity and robustness. A more bodied smoke that is ,for me, more exciting.Anywho,I'm off to light a bowl of sample "D" now in my OLD-VIC .

Matt

[NeverBend]

Hi Matt (@Lostmason),

What does "Ikke snakk med mindre du kan forbedre stillheten." - Spansk ordtak mean?

I've tried Swedish, Danish, Norwegian and Finnish translators and they partially translate (if at all) and are contradictory?

Which version of Autumn Breakfast do your comments refer to?

Thanks,

Pete

[Lostmason]

Hi Matt (@Lostmason),

What does "Ikke snakk med mindre du kan forbedre stillheten." - Spansk ordtak mean?

I've tried Swedish, Danish, Norwegian and Finnish translators and they partially translate (if at all) and are contradictory?

Which version of Autumn Breakfast do your comments refer to?

Thanks,

Pete

"Do not speak unless you can improve the silence." - Spanish proverb

My comments are on the mix you made for me, the mix with your interpretation is a bit different in that I can taste the spice more so I've
got it in a jar to age for a bit.

On sample "D", I'll have to agree with Chris's description, although I didn't have any problems with keeping it lit. It had a spicier feel,made my tongue
numb,and the bitter was present. But considering I smoked it while soaking and bad knee, it was very relaxing and just what the doctor ordered.
Thank you, I know this is kind of mixing forums as well as mixing threads but, Even if nicotene is a stimulant,the very act of smoking a pipe is
relaxing and medicinal.

[NeverBend]

Blending notes:

I've added Stokkebye Perique, Stokkebye Latakia, Eastern Carolina Ribbon with Stokkebye Kentucky Dark Fired on backorder.

Taste:
When we refer to sweet, in tobacco or foods, are we saying sweet, like sugar, or sweet like squash? Similarly is a food spicy like chili, cardamom or thyme? Each class of tobacco, Virginia, Orientals, Burleys, etc., may have these characteristics in similarly different ways. Virginia can range from sugar to molasses or even squash like sweetness. Orientals range from brightly to subtly spiced. Perhaps a good topic to examine in this thread as we go forward.

General notes about Varietals versus Blends:
This equates very closely to wines where one may be a combination of grape types while another use a single specific grape. A varietal is a single type of leaf. A blend a combination leaf of similar type. In general I buy and use varietals. If they're good, their characteristics are more tractable and they impart specific qualities to a blend. Blends contain a range of quality that becomes an average. If there are bad crops then the blend may be better but as long as the quality of the varietals are good I tend to prefer them but I do use some blends.

General notes on Stokkebye:
You're familiar with this manufacturer, prevalent in the industry. Their flakes are good value but my blending interest is in their mixtures (ribbon cut tobaccos) that I feel have too fine a cut for my tastes and desires. Their blending components are also a fine ribbon cut (compared to C&D Red Ribbon Virginia for example) but when selected for purpose the quality of their tobacco, that I've received, has bee good.

Stokkebye Macedonian:
I was surprised by the potency of this varietal. It's useful in small quantities to increase body, spice and a sour/bitter nuance. Too much will take over a mixture and it will become aggressive. The quality of the leaf is good. This tobacco highlights the differences between suppliers and perhaps the mislabeling of some components as other Macedonians (at any price) haven't been similar in quality or characteristics and none as potent.

Stokkebye Perique:
I've had it a short time but it's the best Perique that I've found (see notes above about lack of consistency across suppliers). Short story is that the original St. James Perique is no longer made. St. James was far more potent and, in my opinion, far superior. C&D Exclusive claims to use 50% Perique, an amount that would have been unsmokable for almost anyone if it had been made with the original St. James. Classic Perique mixtures, like Rattray's Red Rapparee were made with less than 10% St. James. Perique was noted for bringing a rich fruity sweetness with a lot of spice but that's diminished with what's available today. I've used the Stokkebye Perique up to 20% in test mixtures but it seems best in a supporting role at 10% or a little less where it enhances and spices but isn't forward.

Stokkebye Latakia:
Doesn't smell or smoke like it was processed with tar. Thinner cut and not as smokey as other Latakia that we use. I don't have experience with this component yet but in a couple of test mixtures it's a bit harder to mix but more evenly distributes with less settling. More as I use it.

Stokkebye Kentucky Dark Fired:
I like our Dark Fired that's a string cut (very thin) and I suspect that it's made by Stokkebye. If it is then we have more and if not it may present an alternative. The other Stokkebye blenders have been good quality.

Eastern Carolina Ribbon:
There was a time when Carolina was the king of tobacco, richer and more deeply sweet than Virginia. 35 years ago Carolina was defined as New, Middle and Old Belt. This Eastern Carolina (New Belt?) is very light and inoffensive but too bland to be more than a filler or diluting component. Wish I'd have ordered an ounce to try it but I was excited to try one of today's Carolinas.

[Lostmason]

Pete (@Neverbend)

When I mention "spice" I am talking more of the feel than the taste.In sample"D" it is like white pepper,a pleasant burning that excites the palate.
The bitter is a subtle undertone that adds depth to the experience.I didn't pick up on a flowery or citrus taste,but a fruit flavor was just at the back.
Kind of like a shadow that you keep chasing.

This is why I feel undeserving, I'm not well endowed with the ability to define what I taste,but can easily identify how I feel. This sample is one
that takes my mind off the world and my own issues by capturing my attention like a good book.It is relaxing and enjoyable,the flavors are such
that they don't overpower or overwhelm, they soothe and comfort.The room note is pleasant and reminds me of fun times at a cigar/pipe lounge.
So with all that said I'll go pack a bowl of sample "B",and chase a few more shadows.:pipe:

[GWBowman]

A few days ago I had a bowl of blend C in a small meer. All I can remember about the jar note and taste is Latakia. It wasn't overwhelming, but I don't recall anything else about it. Revisited it tonight. The jar note is smoky Latakia and a tangy tobacco smell. I'm smoking it in a MM Cob Legend. Of course the Latakia is still there, but has calmed down some. I'm also getting a Virginia combo of sweet and tangy with hints of hay. Part of the way in I'm getting a little spice, mostly on the retrohale. I guessing a little Perique. While I may be completely wrong about the ingredients, I am sure that I like this.

The last shipment was very personalized. There were four blends. One of them was the one Pete made based on our correspondence. Two were named after me, G and Einstein #2. I apologize. Just couldn't help myself. Of course, I jest.

Really looking forward to these.

[Alligator Gar]

I think C is ready for the world. I'd like about 200 grams of this stuffed in Mason jars. I smoked some Seminole Red and Outdoor Incense after wrapping them tight and putting them down for a three week nap and both were improved. OI wasn't as intense, which is good, as it was a flavor bomb, and Red was creamier and sweeter, less bright than I originally remember it.

[NeverBend]

Pete (@Neverbend)

When I mention "spice" I am talking more of the feel than the taste.In sample"D" it is like white pepper,a pleasant burning that excites the palate.
The bitter is a subtle undertone that adds depth to the experience.I didn't pick up on a flowery or citrus taste,but a fruit flavor was just at the back.
Kind of like a shadow that you keep chasing.

This is why I feel undeserving, I'm not well endowed with the ability to define what I taste,but can easily identify how I feel. This sample is one
that takes my mind off the world and my own issues by capturing my attention like a good book.It is relaxing and enjoyable,the flavors are such
that they don't overpower or overwhelm, they soothe and comfort.The room note is pleasant and reminds me of fun times at a cigar/pipe lounge.
So with all that said I'll go pack a bowl of sample "B",and chase a few more shadows.:pipe:

If you are undeserving then who is deserving? Are your taste buds inferior? Just as with food, you know what you like and even if you have difficulty in describing specific tastes, you know the flavors and how you react to them.

Undeserving = Inexperience in describing flavors. Put me in this category too and don't underestimate that we each react (taste) differently so we negotiate descriptions of flavor. Jim (@JimInks) has learned how to consistently describe specific flavors.

Palate = Ability to quickly discern and differentiate flavors. Yes, palate is a skill that's learned and refined and I prefer my definition to attempting to understand (or look at) this:
http://image.slidesharecdn.com/softpalate-150331074929-conversion-gate01/95/anatomy-of-soft-palate-7-638.jpg?cb=1427788863
Your comments about Mixture "D" are consistent with what I've tasted. White Pepper is a good metaphor for the spice. The Virginia (Red especially) is lurking and not answering the door :).

[NeverBend]

I think C is ready for the world. I'd like about 200 grams of this stuffed in Mason jars. I smoked some Seminole Red and Outdoor Incense after wrapping them tight and putting them down for a three week nap and both were improved. OI wasn't as intense, which is good, as it was a flavor bomb, and Red was creamier and sweeter, less bright than I originally remember it.

The Red Virginia from C&D is a good component with a broad ribbon cut but it takes it's time to marry. The Smyrna also takes time to establish it's 'cream'. These two components behave very well together and you'll know that they're integrated when you taste a lurking 'red sweetness' that's subtly sweet with deeper nuance than brighter Virginia and a (mild) spiced cream.

To clarify my flavor comments, (in general), bright Virginia have more acid that gives tang, a citrus note and distinct sweetness (sugary). Red Virginia have a deeper, richer but less sugary sweetness and some fruit. Smyrna won't be a dairy cream, more like spiced turnips with butter (I'll probably make that for Thanksgiving :) ).

[Lostmason]

I smoked a short bowl of sample "B" and noticed what I can only describe as a smoked fig taste.It was an underlying taste, not predominate or
overpowering.Still picked up some of the spice or pepper feel but it was very mild.

Pete NeverBend

The main reasons for my feelings of inferiority are as stated I don't have the background that Jim does, and get frustrated
by not being able to pick out all the nuances of the blend. I'm not that articulate at describing what I can taste and quite
often just give up and enjoy the smoke without trying to seperate the flavors. I've enjoyed several different mixtures lately
and can honestly say that I like the aro's and burley blends the best, on those I can pick up on the cream and nut flavors.
That was what was so intense with the Einstien mixture you sent,a distinct creaminess and mellow vanilla that came thru.
Don't misunderstand my comments as being dispariging, just the level of my gratitude that you would place value on what
feedback I can provide.I feel extremely lucky to have come into contact with you,Jim,Tab,Tobias,and Bruck, The wealth of
knowledge that you all have shared here has given me a renewed love for my pipes and a hobby that my wife and I both
enjoy. Right now I have a small science experiment going and if it works out I'll share it with you for comments and advice.
If it turns sour, I will hide it under a rock and never talk about it,,,:)

[Lostmason]

Currently finishing a bowl of sample "B",still has a bit of the peppery tingle,and a kind of dry smoky taste.At the back I'm still piking up a fig taste and just a touch of bitterness.on the retro hale it's almost a woodsy taste/smell.Out of all four samples ,this one makes me hungry.Wish I had some cinnamon rolls.

[c.ortiz108]

Received mine today and am smoking the first bowl of my version of Double Bass (as in the musical instrument, not the fish!). I'm really enjoying it, and it's perfect for a cool evening on the back patio with a cup of coffee. There's a lot going on with this blend - it's smooth, buttery, with lots of body and depth, but complex, too. I'm not able to really pick out each component but I don't think I've tasted anything quite like this (in all my vast experience of 10 months or so of pipe smoking!) so they all seem to be contributing seamlessly to the overall effect. Individual flavors come and go a bit more as I progress down the bowl. There's a nice mesquite-like woodyness which I imagine to be an effect the Kentucky is having on the Latakia, but what do I know. It's cool burning and easy smoking. I'm not sure it exactly matches my vision. I think the Orientals and maybe one of the VAs are making for a brighter smoke than I was imagining. But I love Oriental-forward blends, and I'd buy this one. I imagine it'll get even better with some age. Can't wait to try Pete's version!

By the way, Pete NeverBend, I seem to have received 2 samples of the same blends (606), so maybe Wayne also got a duplicate? I'm happy to mail him one.

[NeverBend]

By the way, Pete @NeverBend (http://www.cigarbum.com/forum/members/neverbend.html), I seem to have received 2 samples of the same blends (606), so maybe Wayne also got a duplicate? I'm happy to mail him one.

Hi Chico,

Thanks for letting me know. If Wayne(@OnePyroTech) hasn't received some Mixture 606 I would be grateful if you could forward some to him.

[c.ortiz108]

Hi Chico,

Thanks for letting me know. If Wayne(@OnePyroTech) hasn't received some Mixture 606 I would be grateful if you could forward some to him.

Just pm'd Wayne. I'm wondering if he also received a duplicate, since in my package there was only the two 606s and the two versions of Double Bass.

I forgot to mention yesterday that about 3/4 down the bowl, there was a burst of distinct anise-like flavor. Totally unexpected, but delicious.

I just finished a bowl of the other version, and enjoyed it. It seemed crisper, lighter, toasty, and more incense-like, but also with a fuller bottom note if that makes sense. Not much mid-range (all woofer and tweeter). I tasted eucalyptus a few times, some herbal notes, but it seemed to lack the complexity of the other version. It was also smooth with a lot of smoke, though not as cool, and seemed to burn really quickly.

I was really curious to compare them side-by-side, so about 2/3 through the bowl I had some coffee then lit half a bowl of the first version. And now I'm totally confused! It tasted like a completely different blend to what I smoked last night. One-dimensional and waxy. I mean like burning wax. It may be the pipe, or maybe I just fried my palate smoking two lat blends in a row. I'm going to give them both a rest for a week or so, and come back to them fresh.

[GWBowman]

Pete,

I have smoked a couple of bowls of the blend you made for me. I've kicked a few names around, but hoped the taste would help me with the name. Back to the tobacco. The jar note is mostly smoky Latakia with a rich tobacco smell in the background, struggling to poke through. When first lit, all I'm getting is the Latakia. A little way in, I get intermittent moments of faint sweetness. Further along, the Latakia fades some, but the Virginia doesn't get any stronger. The Latakia doesn't seem to be overpowering everything else. Instead, everything else just seems so muted. Believe I'll set it aside and see what a little time does for it.

Thanks,

George

[NeverBend]

Just pm'd Wayne. I'm wondering if he also received a duplicate, since in my package there was only the two 606s and the two versions of Double Bass.

I forgot to mention yesterday that about 3/4 down the bowl, there was a burst of distinct anise-like flavor. Totally unexpected, but delicious.

I just finished a bowl of the other version, and enjoyed it. It seemed crisper, lighter, toasty, and more incense-like, but also with a fuller bottom note if that makes sense. Not much mid-range (all woofer and tweeter). I tasted eucalyptus a few times, some herbal notes, but it seemed to lack the complexity of the other version. It was also smooth with a lot of smoke, though not as cool, and seemed to burn really quickly.

I was really curious to compare them side-by-side, so about 2/3 through the bowl I had some coffee then lit half a bowl of the first version. And now I'm totally confused! It tasted like a completely different blend to what I smoked last night. One-dimensional and waxy. I mean like burning wax. It may be the pipe, or maybe I just fried my palate smoking two lat blends in a row. I'm going to give them both a rest for a week or so, and come back to them fresh.

Hi Chico,

You were supposed to have a sample of "G" as well so it's probable that Wayne has 2 of them.

Pretty much it comes down to this...if something tastes good then I intended it to be so and if not then it wasn't my fault :).

Pete

[c.ortiz108]

Hi Chico,

You were supposed to have a sample of "G" as well so it's probable that Wayne has 2 of them.

Pretty much it comes down to this...if something tastes good then I intended it to be so and if not then it wasn't my fault :).

Pete

Hey, that's been my assumption all along!

[OnePyroTec]

Yes, I have two "G" samples, the package just arrived...Pete I'll pm you my correct address. Good thing I live in a small town :leprechaun:

[NeverBend]

Yes, I have two "G" samples, the package just arrived...Pete I'll pm you my correct address. Good thing I live in a small town :leprechaun:

Thanks Wayne.

What I'm finding on my end.
Mixture "C" is closest to settled. Mixture "B" is more evolved than "A" and "D" that I suspect will take the longest to arrive.

[GWBowman]

A couple of days ago I smoked a bowl of D in Dr. G Savoy. It had a light, mild sweetness that started to fade about halfway down the bowl. Today, I smoked another bowl in a small meer. It seemed less sweet, but also the sweetness was less honey, more dark dried fruit. Seemed to pick up a little spice this time. I think the difference was more due to time than pipe. May have to try another pipe later today, or tomorrow.

[GWBowman]

Today when I opened my jar of D, the jar note hit me as familiar, and defiantly different from the other two times. On the second or maybe third sniff I was back at Uncle James tobacco barn. Smells just like the fresh flue cured tobacco. Dang that was like the early 70's. I loaded my Dr. G Duke. The flavor seems muted to almost nothing. It's also a little more likely to nip at my tongue. The tongue bite could very well be the something I'm doing, but I don't recall getting it before. This is so interesting and fun. Guess I'll put this one back in the cabinet for a while and see how it does later.

Next up will be G. Still haven't smoked any Einstein or The Professor.

[droy1958]

Blending notes:

I've added Stokkebye Perique, Stokkebye Latakia, Eastern Carolina Ribbon with Stokkebye Kentucky Dark Fired on backorder.

Taste:
When we refer to sweet, in tobacco or foods, are we saying sweet, like sugar, or sweet like squash? Similarly is a food spicy like chili, cardamom or thyme? Each class of tobacco, Virginia, Orientals, Burleys, etc., may have these characteristics in similarly different ways. Virginia can range from sugar to molasses or even squash like sweetness. Orientals range from brightly to subtly spiced. Perhaps a good topic to examine in this thread as we go forward.

General notes about Varietals versus Blends:
This equates very closely to wines where one may be a combination of grape types while another use a single specific grape. A varietal is a single type of leaf. A blend a combination leaf of similar type. In general I buy and use varietals. If they're good, their characteristics are more tractable and they impart specific qualities to a blend. Blends contain a range of quality that becomes an average. If there are bad crops then the blend may be better but as long as the quality of the varietals are good I tend to prefer them but I do use some blends.

General notes on Stokkebye:
You're familiar with this manufacturer, prevalent in the industry. Their flakes are good value but my blending interest is in their mixtures (ribbon cut tobaccos) that I feel have too fine a cut for my tastes and desires. Their blending components are also a fine ribbon cut (compared to C&D Red Ribbon Virginia for example) but when selected for purpose the quality of their tobacco, that I've received, has bee good.

Stokkebye Macedonian:
I was surprised by the potency of this varietal. It's useful in small quantities to increase body, spice and a sour/bitter nuance. Too much will take over a mixture and it will become aggressive. The quality of the leaf is good. This tobacco highlights the differences between suppliers and perhaps the mislabeling of some components as other Macedonians (at any price) haven't been similar in quality or characteristics and none as potent.

Stokkebye Perique:
I've had it a short time but it's the best Perique that I've found (see notes above about lack of consistency across suppliers). Short story is that the original St. James Perique is no longer made. St. James was far more potent and, in my opinion, far superior. C&D Exclusive claims to use 50% Perique, an amount that would have been unsmokable for almost anyone if it had been made with the original St. James. Classic Perique mixtures, like Rattray's Red Rapparee were made with less than 10% St. James. Perique was noted for bringing a rich fruity sweetness with a lot of spice but that's diminished with what's available today. I've used the Stokkebye Perique up to 20% in test mixtures but it seems best in a supporting role at 10% or a little less where it enhances and spices but isn't forward.

Stokkebye Latakia:
Doesn't smell or smoke like it was processed with tar. Thinner cut and not as smokey as other Latakia that we use. I don't have experience with this component yet but in a couple of test mixtures it's a bit harder to mix but more evenly distributes with less settling. More as I use it.

Stokkebye Kentucky Dark Fired:
I like our Dark Fired that's a string cut (very thin) and I suspect that it's made by Stokkebye. If it is then we have more and if not it may present an alternative. The other Stokkebye blenders have been good quality.

Eastern Carolina Ribbon:
There was a time when Carolina was the king of tobacco, richer and more deeply sweet than Virginia. 35 years ago Carolina was defined as New, Middle and Old Belt. This Eastern Carolina (New Belt?) is very light and inoffensive but too bland to be more than a filler or diluting component. Wish I'd have ordered an ounce to try it but I was excited to try one of today's Carolinas.

I have so much to learn about pipe tobacco..I'm still trying to learn to pack a bowl properly right now.....

[c.ortiz108]

Thanks Wayne.

What I'm finding on my end.
Mixture "C" is closest to settled. Mixture "B" is more evolved than "A" and "D" that I suspect will take the longest to arrive.


Yes, I have two "G" samples, the package just arrived...Pete I'll pm you my correct address. Good thing I live in a small town :leprechaun:

Received Mixture G today - thanks, Wayne. There was also a sample of "No Idea." ???

[OnePyroTec]

You are welcome Chico.

There is no real name for that extra sample blend I sent. I mixed it up a while ago and next to the ingredients I scribbled no clue because I had no clue what to call it. Try it, hope ya like it.

[c.ortiz108]

You are welcome Chico.

There is no real name for that extra sample blend I sent. I mixed it up a while ago and next to the ingredients I scribbled no clue because I had no clue what to call it. Try it, hope ya like it.
Cool, thanks! Looking forward to trying it.

[GWBowman]

In the last week I've smoked three bowls of Ep in three different pipes. The jar note is light sweetness, and sometimes I thing a little dried fruit. As I smoke, the bowl always starts out just sweet. As it goes, it a pepper/spice starts early to maybe half way in. From time to time, a little dried fruit came through in the first two bowls, but not the last one. It ends with a combo of sweet, tangy, and spice. I want to say this tobacco is still changing a little. It is a very enjoyable blend.

[Alligator Gar]

Just a couple of quick observations here. I rolled A-D up tight and put it down for a nap a few weeks back. Today I did a little test run. Didn't do tasting notes, just recall some lasting impressions several hours later.

A Still not to my liking, never will be. Smells great in the bag. Smokes bright and sour like an underripe orange. Tongue burn and dry mouth. I would eventually like to know the blend so I can avoid it in the future.

B This one is starting to come around. Nutty with a little citrus, great tin note that carries into the burn. Fruit is in the next room, flavor darkens as the bowl progresses. Nice body, could easily be an all day smoke. Flavors are merging to good effect. Eminently smokable.

C I know this one is tasty so I'm hoarding it. Did not smoke today!

D Got to it tonight. I like what it tastes like. Interplay of light and dark tobacco going on here. Maybe a white burley and lemon VA and some unflavored VA Cavendish along with some dark fired Old Kentuck. Not a blend my palate is familiar with, lending a certain intrigue to the experience. I think this could be a good one to put in the rotation. I think I like it.

Seminole Red Now we're talking. Flavors are melded and I don't think it's done improving, either. Closer to what I envisioned: sweet, dark, smokey and fruity with an oriental tang. Not there yet, may never be there, but flavor is cohesive and it is harder to pick out the constituents. It's a smoke that any VA lover would jump on.

Outdoor Incense See tasting note for C above.

I'm going to put some D in the "try meer" and add as an edit tonight.

NeverBend Think of the joy in the hearts of boys across the country every time they delve into another blend. You're doing God's work--keep it up if you can! PS, dropped the Barling and snapped the stem at the shank. My heart sunk. I'll try to extract and glue her tomorrow.

[GWBowman]

NeverBend, the Latakia in the blend you made for me has stepped back a little and is in the right place, a supporting role. I was wondering if a little Bright Virginia would give it a slight lift in flavor, without making it burn too hot, giving opportunity to bite. Would like to hear your thoughts on that.


Saw a tin of Deerstalker online listed for $140. Looks like it sold quickly. That's quite a testimony to you craftsmanship.

[Lostmason]

Pete NeverBend , After giving it a little time and smoking a few bowls,I'm thinking if we could cut the burley by 5gr and increase the Red Ribbon by 5gr it would give it more lasting flavor.Mahap,have to go to a 10gr switch to really bring out the taste though. As to the other blends,The Professor and Einstien, I really like the Einstien.The flavor and feel of the smoke is just what the doctor ordered for making the stress of the days go away,better than rum !

Matthew

[Alligator Gar]

http://i.imgur.com/zDuKnTf.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/nq2PdOz.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/l9WhZDc.jpg

[OnePyroTec]

NeverBend, the Latakia in the blend you made for me has stepped back a little and is in the right place, a supporting role. I was wondering if a little Bright Virginia would give it a slight lift in flavor, without making it burn too hot, giving opportunity to bite. Would like to hear your thoughts on that.


Saw a tin of Deerstalker online listed for $140. Looks like it sold quickly. That's quite a testimony to you craftsmanship.

Hey George, if you like Virginias I can send you a taste of Deerstalker. LMK

- - - Updated - - -
NeverBend Pete, as far as I'm concerned there is no need to make any changes to the special blend you sent. I like it just the way it is, thank you!

[GWBowman]

Hey George, if you like Virginias I can send you a taste of Deerstalker. LMK

That would be great, Wayne. Thanks you very much.

[c.ortiz108]

Pete, NeverBend, just had my 3rd bowl of my version of Double Bass and what was initially really interesting and unique is now a little boring and uneventful. I don't know if it's just me, or if it's having an aeration period or what. There's also something sharp and almost sour going on, and I'm wondering if there's too much Smyrna. And there's something that I'm finding a little irritating to my sinuses, maybe the Kentucky. Or maybe one of the components that made your A blend kind of cigarette-like?

Anyway, I'm wondering if we decrease the Smyrna and remove the Kentucky altogether, and make up the balance with some Black Cavendish, maybe that'll smooth things out, reduce the sharpness, and add more depth? I'll smoke your version of the blend soon and see if I can make some more productive comparisons.

I actually went to smoke some this the other day and I couldn't believe how different it was..... until i realized I'd accidentally grabbed the jar of your C mixture instead!

[Alligator Gar]

Pete, NeverBend, just had my 3rd bowl of my version of Double Bass and what was initially really interesting and unique is now a little boring and uneventful. I don't know if it's just me, or if it's having an aeration period or what. There's also something sharp and almost sour going on, and I'm wondering if there's too much Smyrna. And there's something that I'm finding a little irritating to my sinuses, maybe the Kentucky. Or maybe one of the components that made your A blend kind of cigarette-like?

Anyway, I'm wondering if we decrease the Smyrna and remove the Kentucky altogether, and make up the balance with some Black Cavendish, maybe that'll smooth things out, reduce the sharpness, and add more depth? I'll smoke your version of the blend soon and see if I can make some more productive comparisons.

I actually went to smoke some this the other day and I couldn't believe how different it was..... until i realized I'd accidentally grabbed the jar of your C mixture instead!

We need to start the marketing and packaging for C. I'll write copy if somebody can concentrate on the tin art.

[Emperor Zurg]

Regarding the blend(s) to be eventually known as English Springer…
I've let them rest a while to see where they would go. I'm still not sure which is 'my' formula and which one is Pete's take on it. I need to go back through my emails to find out. I actually have a hard time calling either of them 'my creation' because I really don't have much of a clue about tobacco blending and without Pete's help I'd be just as well off crumbling up oak leaves from the back yard.

But for now…

The unpressed sample (not in a baggie) has taken on a very nice citrus flavor that wasn't there much at first. The flavor to me reminds me of orange zest like you'd put in marmalade. It's also sweet - especially at first, although the sweetness does fade throughout the bowl. There's an enjoyable creaminess and smokiness as well and a fleeting toffee like flavor that comes thru in wisps occasionally. I don't pick up the toffee flavor in every bowl but it's there from time to time and I like it when I find it. There is just a bit of pepper coming through as the bowl burns down but not a lot.The flavor pretty much stays at what I'd describe as ‘creamy, smoky orange’ from start to finish with the only change being the gradual decrease in sweetness and a little increasing pepper. It's a little monochromatic in that regard but still very enjoyable and almost exactly what I was looking for.

The pressed sample (in the baggie) that was better at first has taken second place. It's not as citrusy as it was at first - which makes sense since there quite a bit less bright Virgina, percentage wise than in the previously mentioned sample. Actually, it's probably just as citrusy as it was, but the citrus has really come out in the other sample and hasn't in this one. There was a very nice, baking-spice-of-some-kind in this one at first but I can't find that at all now. (I can't identify this spice but it's there in a lot of English blends and I like it.) The flavor is still sweet, creamy and mildly smoky like the unpressed sample but the citrus is diluted in this one. Regardless, smoking this sample with a cup of coffee is very nice; it pairs very well.

[Lostmason]

Pete sends his regards and us tied up a bit.Remember him and his Mrs in our prayers.

[GWBowman]

Today, while squatted down in front of my tobacco cabinet, my eye is drawn to some jars, labeled with dates from fall 2015 and a letter of the alphabet. I've just lit a bowl of "D" in a Dr. Grabow. The jar note is exceptionally and naturally sweet. The smoke taste light and tangy with a coy sweetness. This is a very enjoyable tobacco that burns well and puts out a nice amount of smoke.

If anyone knows how NeverBend is doing, or has knowledge of what tobaccos these actually are, it would be much appreciated. I hope Pete is doing well, and still enjoy reading some of his old post.

[BryGuySC]

I've been thinking about Pete a lot over the past couple months. Not wanting to push the bounds of decency, I have done some internet searching for him, but found nothing recent.
I'd also really like to know how he and his wife are doing.

[Lostmason]

I believe there is one of our boys here that has Pete's PN.I too would
like to hears some news. I miss his insight and instruction.

[Emperor Zurg]

I looked up his phone number once. It wasn't hard to find since I know his last name and the town he lives in. But there was no answer when I called. I sent emails and he hasn't replied to those either. IDK what gives.

[Branzig]

Add me to the many who have reached out to Pete in multiple ways with no reply.

It's unfortunate. I built a very strong relationship with the man.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

[BryGuySC]

Today, while squatted down in front of my tobacco cabinet, my eye is drawn to some jars, labeled with dates from fall 2015 and a letter of the alphabet. I've just lit a bowl of "D" in a Dr. Grabow. The jar note is exceptionally and naturally sweet. The smoke taste light and tangy with a coy sweetness. This is a very enjoyable tobacco that burns well and puts out a nice amount of smoke.

If anyone knows how NeverBend is doing, or has knowledge of what tobaccos these actually are, it would be much appreciated. I hope Pete is doing well, and still enjoy reading some of his old post.

I spent some time a while back trying to figure out what my samples were. I went through our forum posts, emails, etc and compiled what I could find about them.
Ready? Here ya go.

My mixtures - samples sent:
Blood Meridian - The mixture is almost all Virginia, dark and light, with a special ingredient to flesh it out and add complexity.
Red Ronnett's Sonnett
Brave New World (E&C New World)
Cromwell (E&C)
Thomas Hariot
The Professor (semi-aromatic)
Einstein (semi-aromatic)

Pete's descriptions
A
Mixture A has some Smyrna and that was all I tasted when I tried it yesterday, no Red VA flavor at all.
A = I know that it blooms with age and sucks with AA.

B
Your samples of Mixture B uses Lemon VA instead of Bright VA (used in my earlier tests) and that could be part of the citrus top note along with AA. The extra acid in the Lemon VA comes through and this mixture tastes one-dimensional.
Me: Blend B has something in it that almost immediately makes my tongue numb. The same thing happened with the Thomas Harriott blend.

C
Mixture C is the only one with Latakia.
C = This is a finished blend, as long as I can reproduce it regularly (I had thought that I could). The latakia prevents it from being flat like the others but it won't be as intended until the AA wears off and then the latakia is more in a supporting role.

D
Mixture D was blended on 10-14
D = Needs a lot more time than it has had, as you have it. It needs to assimilate and smooth one of the components (especially). I suspect it will be much better with about 6 months of age.

Pete notes:
Red Ronnett's Sonnett is intended to interplay red virginias with orientals. If blended well it should have some toast and jam with oriental creaminess and a little spice (especially in the snork).

Blood Meridian is intended to have a deeper seat with black stoved virginia and it's all virginia other than a little spice from KY Dark Fired. It's a more rugged Virginia Mixture and so reminded me of the West and thus the name. If I blended it well it should taste like a darker virginia with some sweetness, and a little smokiness and character of the KY Dark Fired.

Thomas Hariot derives from work on making E&C The Stout. It's intended to have a distinct earthy thread of KY Dark Fired in a rich and lightly sweet full English (latakia).

Cromwell​ ​​(E&C) a medium to full English blend

Brave New World is my updated version of E&C New World. Most cigar leaf blends try too hard to express this component and they're often aggressive and can bite. New World was one of the first cigar leaf mixtures and I've modified the formula to accommodate leaf stock and I use two types of cigar leaf. Lots of orientals. If I blended well it should be light but lingering on the palate, with a nice interplay between the cigar leaf and be more what I believe cigar leaf mixtures should be, a combination of pipe and cigar tastes. Some cream and sneaky nic hit.

The Professor I've explained and it should be very cool and dry burning, especially for an aromatic. This green river base works well with latakia and the result should be a tolerable room note with a nicely delivered latakia flavor (not a bomb).
Should be very cool and dry burn, even if the tobacco feels a bit moist. Latakia and Green River cavendish work well together, and they smooth the flavors but shouldn't hide them. Shouldn't bite even if puffed hard.

Einstein is made with The Professor as the base but it has a stronger burley component that adds some depth and complexity. Most of you received the version that's slightly more aromatic than The Professor and can burn less cool and dry but unless puffed aggressively this shouldn't be a problem.

The Professor and Einstein were sent fairly moist but they light and burn well this way. Einstein can be a little more aromatic in its properties.

My notes:

A:
Leaves my mouth feeling a bit dry. Not a lot of flavor. Hint of pepper? Maybe imagining something floral? Maybe burley, or C&D virginias. A bit harsh. Irritated the end of my tongue and front of roof of my mouth.
Guess: Red Ronnett’s Sonnett

B:
A little dry, but not bitey. I get some floral notes. Plenty of smoke. Almost a pine resin scent on hard puffing. Retrohale is sharp. My dog is really interested in this smoke. Pretty sure there are orientals in this one. There is also a malty breadiness. Less spice in the snork on the last half of the bowl, and a tiny bit more sweetness (like a baguette). Decent nicotine by the end of the bowl.
I’m not picking up a burley bite on this one. More like a C&D virginia dryness. If so, I bet a switch to McClelland 5100 would put it right in my sweet spot.
Guess: Blood Meridian


C:
Charing light is dry, but once it gets going a delicious sweetness appears.
A mild spice to the snork. Much less spice than mixture B. Smooth. I like this best so far. Hints of butter and toast.
Toward the end of the smoke, I pick up a sort of musty Barnyard compost smell every once in awhile.
Guess: Cromwell?

D:
Buttery sweetness. Creamy. Pretty good smoke volume. Occasional spice.
Guess: Brave New World


Let me know if any of you other guys have other guesses.

[GWBowman]

"G" is a light English ???

or maybe an Oriental

I'm no good at this

[droy1958]

Today, while squatted down in front of my tobacco cabinet, my eye is drawn to some jars, labeled with dates from fall 2015 and a letter of the alphabet. I've just lit a bowl of "D" in a Dr. Grabow. The jar note is exceptionally and naturally sweet. The smoke taste light and tangy with a coy sweetness. This is a very enjoyable tobacco that burns well and puts out a nice amount of smoke.

If anyone knows how NeverBend is doing, or has knowledge of what tobaccos these actually are, it would be much appreciated. I hope Pete is doing well, and still enjoy reading some of his old post.

I don't know what's going on with Pete, but I do hope only the best for he and his family as I know he's been through some trials of life lately. Pete is the first person to send me some pipe tobacco to try, and I do appreciate his generosity and kindness to a fellow BOTL.....

[droy1958]

"G" is a light English ???

or maybe an Oriental

I'm no good at this

I thought it was only me....

[BryGuySC]

"G"?!?

Dang it. I didn't get any "G."
I think we need a more detailed review.

[droy1958]

"G"?!?

Dang it. I didn't get any "G."
I think we need a more detailed review.

I'd get you a more detailed view, but I think the wifey would bust my head. I think AlanS might be the man to fix you up right now.....Errrrrr.....ahhhhh.....nevermind, I just realized you stated "review" and not "view".......carry on.....I'll just be here back in the shadows trying to shutup......