cigar beetle question

[thechasm442]

ughh, I had hoped I never had to ask about the dreaded cigar beetle, but today I found them. My question is, how did they get there? Here's the situation. I've had my entire stash in a coolidor and inside separate cigar boxes for 2.5 years now. During that time, the temperature has not fluctuated above or below 67-70 degrees fahrenheit and the rh has always been a steady 65%. I also test and re-calibrate both of my hygrometers once a month. The beetles were discovered on 2 gran habano 2002's, which have been in the cooler since march of 2014. No other cigar has been effected. I have taken the necessary quarantine precautions since the discovery but that really doesn't answer the mystery of how this happened. Even more strange, 4 days ago I pulled cigars from the same box, and there were no beetles present on said infected sticks.

So I guess my question is, how would a beetle hatch on 2 sticks in a completely controlled environment, when they have already been resting in the environment for 18 months?

Thanks for any input. The plus side is, at least it was a couple of cheap smokes that got wasted and not the good stuff.

[bluenoser]

No answer to your question but glad you found them with minimal damage. I've hear horror stories of massive losses.

[johnnyflake]

ughh, I had hoped I never had to ask about the dreaded cigar beetle, but today I found them. My question is, how did they get there? Here's the situation. I've had my entire stash in a coolidor and inside separate cigar boxes for 2.5 years now. During that time, the temperature has not fluctuated above or below 67-70 degrees fahrenheit and the rh has always been a steady 65%. I also test and re-calibrate both of my hygrometers once a month. The beetles were discovered on 2 gran habano 2002's, which have been in the cooler since march of 2014. No other cigar has been effected. I have taken the necessary quarantine precautions since the discovery but that really doesn't answer the mystery of how this happened. Even more strange, 4 days ago I pulled cigars from the same box, and there were no beetles present on said infected sticks.

So I guess my question is, how would a beetle hatch on 2 sticks in a completely controlled environment, when they have already been resting in the environment for 18 months?

Thanks for any input. The plus side is, at least it was a couple of cheap smokes that got wasted and not the good stuff.

You do not state if the beetles were alive or not. You say they were found ON the cigars. Were there any holes in the cigars they were on? Hold the cigars over a piece of paper, up right with the foot at the bottom and tap the cigars vigorously on the paper. If lots of dust comes out, onto the paper, they are/were alive and did penetrate the cigar and carved it up. If you do not see holes and no dust comes out, of the cigars, they probably were not penetrated. If they were not alive and did not penetrate the cigars, it may just be a fluke and they were dead and present when you got the cigars. If they were alive, you will have a bigger problem than you may think and it's hard to determine where they came from!

If they were alive and did penetrate any of your cigars, freezing everything is the only way to protect what you have from further out breaks and damage!

[jp1979]

ughh, I had hoped I never had to ask about the dreaded cigar beetle, but today I found them. My question is, how did they get there? Here's the situation. I've had my entire stash in a coolidor and inside separate cigar boxes for 2.5 years now. During that time, the temperature has not fluctuated above or below 67-70 degrees fahrenheit and the rh has always been a steady 65%. I also test and re-calibrate both of my hygrometers once a month. The beetles were discovered on 2 gran habano 2002's, which have been in the cooler since march of 2014. No other cigar has been effected. I have taken the necessary quarantine precautions since the discovery but that really doesn't answer the mystery of how this happened. Even more strange, 4 days ago I pulled cigars from the same box, and there were no beetles present on said infected sticks.

So I guess my question is, how would a beetle hatch on 2 sticks in a completely controlled environment, when they have already been resting in the environment for 18 months?

Thanks for any input. The plus side is, at least it was a couple of cheap smokes that got wasted and not the good stuff.

no bueno

[thechasm442]

You do not state if the beetles were alive or not. You say they were found ON the cigars. Were there any holes in the cigars they were on? Hold the cigars over a piece of paper, up right with the foot at the bottom and tap the cigars vigorously on the paper. If lots of dust comes out, onto the paper, they are/were alive and did penetrate the cigar and carved it up. If you do not see holes and no dust comes out, of the cigars, they probably were not penetrated. If they were not alive and did not penetrate the cigars, it may just be a fluke and they were dead and present when you got the cigars. If they were alive, you will have a bigger problem than you may think and it's hard to determine where they came from!

If they were alive and did penetrate any of your cigars, freezing everything is the only way to protect what you have from further out breaks and damage!

I did not see actual evidence of beetles, however the worst affected cigar had lots of brown powdery substance in the wrapper, as well as a few holes. Just 4 days prior, none of this was visible.

[thechasm442]

I am currently bagging and refrigerating everything i have and will transition to the freezer. I just dont understand how this happened now when i have maintained the same conditions for 2.5 years.

[jp1979]

I am currently bagging and refrigerating everything i have and will transition to the freezer. I just dont understand how this happened now when i have maintained the same conditions for 2.5 years.

Was there a spike when you moved???

[thechasm442]

Was there a spike when you moved???

The temp and rh spiked 2-3 degrees for about 8 hours but that was it. When this is all said and done I might just switch to beads. I have roughly 30 boveda 60rh packs in there now and it's always been fine.

[jp1979]

The temp and rh spiked 2-3 degrees for about 8 hours but that was it. When this is all said and done I might just switch to beads. I have roughly 30 boveda 60rh packs in there now and it's always been fine.

30 bovedas? holy crap... tough to say why or how it happened I guess... I have gotten really lax with freezing but these types of situations make me get back on it everytime.... glad it was only 2 sticks....

[Old Smokey]

I am glad you found them early with little damage. I go through my cigars about every few months or so when I recharge the beads and look everything over looking for any damage or concerns. So far all is well but I am going to go through the routine tomorrow for peace of mind plus it's time to recharge the beads. Takes me about an hour.

The majority of my cigars have not had the freezer treatment except for the usual subjects and this years LC-15s.

[HIM]

This is one of those examples the FOGs talk about where beetle hatchings can occure even in the 50s. The lower temps help but in the end they don't provide guaranteed immunity. On the other hand Ive never seen anyone that freezes ever mention having a beetle issue. IMO skip the fridge and just go straight to the freezer. Ive never gave my sticks time in the fridge, before or after freezing, and I freeze everything including the leaf I buy for homerolls.

[thechasm442]

This is one of those examples the FOGs talk about where beetle hatchings can occure even in the 50s. The lower temps help but in the end they don't provide guaranteed immunity. On the other hand Ive never seen anyone that freezes ever mention having a beetle issue. IMO skip the fridge and just go straight to the freezer. Ive never gave my sticks time in the fridge, before or after freezing, and I freeze everything including the leaf I buy for homerolls.

I will do that than Cole. I just want to kill these damn things so I can quit freaking out.

[Bernardini]

I am currently bagging and refrigerating everything i have and will transition to the freezer. I just dont understand how this happened now when i have maintained the same conditions for 2.5 years.

Is it possible you just did not notice the evidence when u first bought the cigars?

When I first started out, I bought some Gran Habano 2002's and put them in my storage without checking them. A week later I looked and saw two sticks with obvious beetle damage, holes and dust. It was dead of winter, and temperature never got above 62F.

I still froze everything, (and everything new since), but was fairly confident it was evidence of a previous issue that I missed

I would ABSOLUTELY Freeze everything, but if these are not go to cigars and were at the bottom of the cooler, perhaps they arrived with issues??

[thechasm442]

Is it possible you just did not notice the evidence when u first bought the cigars?

When I first started out, I bought some Gran Habano 2002's and put them in my storage without checking them. A week later I looked and saw two sticks with obvious beetle damage, holes and dust. It was dead of winter, and temperature never got above 62F.

I still froze everything, (and everything new since), but was fairly confident it was evidence of a previous issue that I missed

I would ABSOLUTELY Freeze everything, but if these are not go to cigars and were at the bottom of the cooler, perhaps they arrived with issues??

I would agree except I've had a few since I bought them 18 months ago. One as recently as last week. I was just told by a family member that they might have left the lid on my cooler ajar one day when I was out of town so that explains a bit more. Oh well. I just inspected and wrapped every stick I have (save for a couple that I put in a tupperdor to smoke this weekend) and there is no evidence of any beetle damage. Lesson learned, from now on I freeze everything!

[Rocket Scientologist]

The majority of my cigars have not had the freezer treatment except for the usual subjects and this years LC-15s.

You freeze the LC15? I wouldn't think to freeze higher end cigars, was there something sketchy about this years batch?

[jp1979]

You freeze the LC15? I wouldn't think to freeze higher end cigars, was there something sketchy about this years batch?

Reports of beetles and acknowledgment by Crowned Heads.... High end- low end.... tobacco beetles show no prejudice

[stonecutter2]

I had a beetle in a Liga Privada Undercrown Corona Viva. And I freaked and froze everything.

In the process, I also found a Gran Habano Vintage 2002 that had "suddenly" (I was analyzing the sticks every day) appeared to have beetles present (stuff on the cigar inside the cello, etc). Interesting that you also had some on yours. Perhaps it's a GHV2002 thing. Mine occurred years ago though.

I froze all of the other GHV2002's and inspected them for holes etc. And froze my stash.

I'm fairly confident the Corona Viva and the GHV2002 were independent events, but it freaked me out.

Fortunately no further issues so far. Good luck to you, I know of the terror that you experienced!

[Old Smokey]

Reports of beetles and acknowledgment by Crowned Heads.... High end- low end.... tobacco beetles show no prejudice

What he said! I should probably get into the habit of freezing everything. It's not a big deal, but beetles are.

[Rocket Scientologist]

Reports of beetles and acknowledgment by Crowned Heads.... High end- low end.... tobacco beetles show no prejudice

ah, f**k. I guess I need to check my stash. I hadn't heard that.

[HIM]

ah, f**k. I guess I need to check my stash. I hadn't heard that.

Its the sad truth. Don't let this happen to you!!!

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b136/MilesMingusMonk2/buggy_pams.jpg

[jp1979]

Its the sad truth. Don't let this happen to you!!!

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b136/MilesMingusMonk2/buggy_pams.jpg

Cole, this picture gives me nightmares for weeks every time you post it.

[HIM]

Cole, this picture gives me nightmares for weeks every time you post it.

Lol for some reason I love posting it. Incredibly powerful image. I think every cigar lover dies a little on the inside when they see it.

[jp1979]

Lol for some reason I love posting it. Incredibly powerful image. I think every cigar lover dies a little on the inside when they see it.

Huge favor? Advanced warning next time. :stogie:

[Hardheaded]

Its the sad truth. Don't let this happen to you!!!

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b136/MilesMingusMonk2/buggy_pams.jpg

Looks like it was hit by bird shot. You get drunk and use it for target practice?

[Zeede]

God, that's terrible to behold.

[bluenoser]

After seeing this first thing I did when I got home was run to the wineador and check each stick. Might have to start freezing, you people make me paranoid lol.

[Old Smokey]

That one on the far left looks smokeable.:D

[thechasm442]

After seeing this first thing I did when I got home was run to the wineador and check each stick. Might have to start freezing, you people make me paranoid lol.

you can never be too paranoid. I've spent the last 3 years blissfully ignorant thinking a temp of 67-70 and rh of 65 made my stash safe. I was wrong. Freeze brother, by all means, freeze!

[Tman]

Ugghh. These thread makes me paranoid. Had to check my GHV2002 just to make sure they were OK. They are.

[johnnyflake]

That one on the far left looks smokeable.:D

You need to take a closer look my friend. May be a magnifier will help!

[Laynard]

Its the sad truth. Don't let this happen to you!!!

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b136/MilesMingusMonk2/buggy_pams.jpg

Definitely plume. :humble:

[Upstatemax]

I'm going to start freezing my entire stash...

[NeverBend]

...I've spent the last 3 years blissfully ignorant thinking a temp of 67-70 and rh of 65 made my stash safe. I was wrong. Freeze brother, by all means, freeze!

Hi Kevin,

Sorry to hear about your problem, but you didn't cause or abet it, you inherited it.

Cigar manufacturers and wholesalers have more technology (than in the past) to eliminate these pests but even the most rigorous quality control can't eliminate them. These bugs are bad for business. As smokers, even if we optimally maintain our cigars, you can get them if the cigars you receive are infected. I'm concerned that several people mentioned problems with Gran Habano sticks, something to look out for and monitor.


You do not state if the beetles were alive or not. You say they were found ON the cigars. Were there any holes in the cigars they were on? Hold the cigars over a piece of paper, up right with the foot at the bottom and tap the cigars vigorously on the paper. If lots of dust comes out, onto the paper, they are/were alive and did penetrate the cigar and carved it up. If you do not see holes and no dust comes out, of the cigars, they probably were not penetrated. If they were not alive and did not penetrate the cigars, it may just be a fluke and they were dead and present when you got the cigars. If they were alive, you will have a bigger problem than you may think and it's hard to determine where they came from!

If they were alive and did penetrate any of your cigars, freezing everything is the only way to protect what you have from further out breaks and damage!

Holes and dust indicate activity but there may be eggs in a cigar that you can't see. Holes in the cello (box/bundle) or the individual cigars indicate activity.

In my stores there have been a few incidents. In one case, while unpacking an order, I noticed dust in the outer cello, so I removed the entire shipment from the store. Distance is important because they can fly.

Another time I found an affected box and, simply based on quantity, freezing wasn't an option so we'd open, isolate and quarantine. Any boxes found with dust or holes (inside or outside) were discarded and we quarantined all the others. We made some emergency orders. Only two boxes were tossed and none of the quarantined boxes ever had problems.

I'm not an expert on tobacco bugs but I believe that the larval stage is when they eat but perhaps the greater problem is their eggs. In our favor is that they don't live a long time, measures to control them usually mean that there are only a few offenders so that a widespread infestation would probably mean a lack of vigilance. As I mentioned, they can fly, but in my experience, and that of other tobacconists I know, the affected stock tends to be close together.

Don't panic, sorry for the lost sticks and you should be fine following John's excellent advice.

[cbr310]

Good thread. Never knew t freeze before. If you get sticks off others here would you still freze them, and for how long? I only have a few sticks so wouldnt kill me, but want to be safe in the future.

[thechasm442]

Good thread. Never knew t freeze before. If you get sticks off others here would you still freze them, and for how long? I only have a few sticks so wouldnt kill me, but want to be safe in the future.

I will. I trust everyone here but I have no way of knowing what temp the trucks, planes, railcars, and warehouses are before I get them.

[WNYTONY]

I will. I trust everyone here but I have no way of knowing what temp the trucks, planes, railcars, and warehouses are before I get them.

Agree - I freeze everything to be safe. It's a slight pain and wife always notices cigars in the freezer, but has to be done.

[JasonBCP]

Definitely plume. :humble:

^Okay, now that's funny.

[droy1958]

Seems I seen a Padron video, and they froze everything before they shipped? Maybe I have them confused with another video....

[jp1979]

Seems I seen a Padron video, and they froze everything before they shipped? Maybe I have them confused with another video....

I believe most manufacturers flash freeze before shipment but it may not be all of them, as mentioned they may have been shipped with a batch that wasn't frozen.

[thechasm442]

I believe most manufacturers flash freeze before shipment but it may not be all of them, as mentioned they may have been shipped with a batch that wasn't frozen.

based on my post and a few others here, I'm feeling like gran habano doesn't freeze.

[jp1979]

based on my post and a few others here, I'm feeling like gran habano doesn't freeze.
I would most likely agree with that

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[Upstatemax]

So my cigars came out of the chest freezer last night.

Check on them this AM and all looks great.

How long should I let them rest before I smoke any of them?

[Rocket Scientologist]

How long should I let them rest before I smoke any of them?

I'd give them at least a couple weeks to re-acclimate. But if you're anxious to smoke, go ahead and try one now to see what you think.

[tjhemp]

Every cigar I acquire gets the deep freeze treatment before it ever sees the inside of my cigar storage. No matter where it came from. It takes a little time but its worth it.

[Billb1960]

based on my post and a few others here, I'm feeling like gran habano doesn't freeze.

A lot of companies don't freeze finished cigars. They freeze the tobacco before it's rolled and then fumigate the rolled cigars.

[NeverBend]

I was digging around in a humidor when I came across a box of Arganese Cafe that I bought a couple of years ago and there was tobacco debris inside the outer cello wrap! I immediately stripped the cello and the brushed off the debris (before thinking of this thread). I hope that the pics show, I changed to FireFox mode per BryGuySC (thanks Bryan).

A couple of specks remain on the bottom left corner of the box. There were a lot more before I brushed it off.
https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ui=2&ik=16da8d874b&view=fimg&th=150009b9c2c7ba71&attid=0.1&disp=inline&realattid=1513220168682045440-local0&safe=1&attbid=ANGjdJ-a0plTObfc_oXyVCDUrS170j6fYDY_ru0SgrOE0HZj2Qtcr3OdL PKjWZzPESpYL5NFjuC9GRQnRINMr-wIqy9ZyGPUmwHRoWZQ3to4H8qt4kU_zT1_MO-rk84&ats=1443124894838&rm=150009b9c2c7ba71&zw&sz=w1335-h482

This is how they are packed! Surrounding the light cardboard inner box is an inch deep (or more) of cigar leaf remnants (I presume) that are in great shape, properly moist and ready to be used in some pipe mixtures :). At a guess, 2-3 ounces.
https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ui=2&ik=16da8d874b&view=fimg&th=150009b7759ffe96&attid=0.1&disp=inline&realattid=1513220157667803136-local0&safe=1&attbid=ANGjdJ_-duTb5UTqLT3sef_gJdSr7LKRy4fi3JBOhwOEARz3_W9XmNpZ5L 63wPuk75g5mKf_jdeY9nZuhST0Rj_YEzEkMTUZjntMHZPHbt-awqG5WRk_WIq2o2oIlpY&ats=1443125247074&rm=150009b7759ffe96&zw&sz=w1335-h482

This is the Arganese Cafe, (had them before - a very mild but flavorful, morning cigar) complete with pigtail and shaggy foot.
https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ui=2&ik=16da8d874b&view=fimg&th=150009ed445c07fe&attid=0.1&disp=inline&realattid=1513220389247909888-local0&safe=1&attbid=ANGjdJ8ucqKDlDeudUu_RK4xukT9Qps2zbSrz_KU7vk s4nVPBwVgA8d8znvfk_SrOxUpEdujOPhjupLFKeJjql7k9ApNc H7WNxTsMTer96bKKu9OPKjs135CdUI3X5g&ats=1443125563062&rm=150009ed445c07fe&zw&sz=w1335-h482

- - - Updated - - -

I was digging around in a humidor when I came across a box of Arganese Cafe that I bought a couple of years ago and there was tobacco debris inside the outer cello wrap! I immediately stripped the cello and the brushed off the debris (before thinking of this thread). I hope that the pics show, I changed to FireFox mode per BryGuySC (thanks Bryan).

A couple of specks remain on the bottom left corner of the box. There were a lot more before I brushed it off.
https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ui=2&ik=16da8d874b&view=fimg&th=150009b9c2c7ba71&attid=0.1&disp=inline&realattid=1513220168682045440-local0&safe=1&attbid=ANGjdJ-a0plTObfc_oXyVCDUrS170j6fYDY_ru0SgrOE0HZj2Qtcr3OdL PKjWZzPESpYL5NFjuC9GRQnRINMr-wIqy9ZyGPUmwHRoWZQ3to4H8qt4kU_zT1_MO-rk84&ats=1443124894838&rm=150009b9c2c7ba71&zw&sz=w1335-h482

This is how they are packed! Surrounding the light cardboard inner box is an inch deep (or more) of cigar leaf remnants (I presume) that are in great shape, properly moist and ready to be used in some pipe mixtures :). At a guess, 2-3 ounces.
https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ui=2&ik=16da8d874b&view=fimg&th=150009b7759ffe96&attid=0.1&disp=inline&realattid=1513220157667803136-local0&safe=1&attbid=ANGjdJ_-duTb5UTqLT3sef_gJdSr7LKRy4fi3JBOhwOEARz3_W9XmNpZ5L 63wPuk75g5mKf_jdeY9nZuhST0Rj_YEzEkMTUZjntMHZPHbt-awqG5WRk_WIq2o2oIlpY&ats=1443125247074&rm=150009b7759ffe96&zw&sz=w1335-h482

This is the Arganese Cafe, (had them before - a very mild but flavorful, morning cigar) complete with pigtail and shaggy foot.
https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ui=2&ik=16da8d874b&view=fimg&th=150009ed445c07fe&attid=0.1&disp=inline&realattid=1513220389247909888-local0&safe=1&attbid=ANGjdJ8ucqKDlDeudUu_RK4xukT9Qps2zbSrz_KU7vk s4nVPBwVgA8d8znvfk_SrOxUpEdujOPhjupLFKeJjql7k9ApNc H7WNxTsMTer96bKKu9OPKjs135CdUI3X5g&ats=1443125563062&rm=150009ed445c07fe&zw&sz=w1335-h482

- - - Updated - - -

I was digging around in a humidor when I came across a box of Arganese Cafe that I bought a couple of years ago and there was tobacco debris inside the outer cello wrap! I immediately stripped the cello and the brushed off the debris (before thinking of this thread). I hope that the pics show, I changed to FireFox mode per BryGuySC (thanks Bryan).

A couple of specks remain on the bottom left corner of the box. There were a lot more before I brushed it off.
https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ui=2&ik=16da8d874b&view=fimg&th=150009b9c2c7ba71&attid=0.1&disp=inline&realattid=1513220168682045440-local0&safe=1&attbid=ANGjdJ-a0plTObfc_oXyVCDUrS170j6fYDY_ru0SgrOE0HZj2Qtcr3OdL PKjWZzPESpYL5NFjuC9GRQnRINMr-wIqy9ZyGPUmwHRoWZQ3to4H8qt4kU_zT1_MO-rk84&ats=1443124894838&rm=150009b9c2c7ba71&zw&sz=w1335-h482

This is how they are packed! Surrounding the light cardboard inner box is an inch deep (or more) of cigar leaf remnants (I presume) that are in great shape, properly moist and ready to be used in some pipe mixtures :). At a guess, 2-3 ounces.
https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ui=2&ik=16da8d874b&view=fimg&th=150009b7759ffe96&attid=0.1&disp=inline&realattid=1513220157667803136-local0&safe=1&attbid=ANGjdJ_-duTb5UTqLT3sef_gJdSr7LKRy4fi3JBOhwOEARz3_W9XmNpZ5L 63wPuk75g5mKf_jdeY9nZuhST0Rj_YEzEkMTUZjntMHZPHbt-awqG5WRk_WIq2o2oIlpY&ats=1443125247074&rm=150009b7759ffe96&zw&sz=w1335-h482

This is the Arganese Cafe, (had them before - a very mild but flavorful, morning cigar) complete with pigtail and shaggy foot.
https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ui=2&ik=16da8d874b&view=fimg&th=150009ed445c07fe&attid=0.1&disp=inline&realattid=1513220389247909888-local0&safe=1&attbid=ANGjdJ8ucqKDlDeudUu_RK4xukT9Qps2zbSrz_KU7vk s4nVPBwVgA8d8znvfk_SrOxUpEdujOPhjupLFKeJjql7k9ApNc H7WNxTsMTer96bKKu9OPKjs135CdUI3X5g&ats=1443125563062&rm=150009ed445c07fe&zw&sz=w1335-h482

[Ropey]

Beetles can hatch and multiply in the 60s F. That temp merely slows em down. If you wanna know if your sticks have viable eggs, put them in 85 degree temps for a month or two.

Literally. Take a stick or two that is suspect, put it in a plastic bag with a boveda and leave it in a warm place and watch it.