NeverBend
06-08-2015, 03:10 AM
Buying Estate Pipes on eBay (or How I stopped worrying and learned to love buying Internet Pipe Bombs).
Some ideas about buying generic (briar) pipes off of the Internet and specifically eBay. Hope that it helps you avoid lemons, problems and maybe assist in finding some good values and is intended for beginners to intermediate experience.
You should know the basics of what to look for in a pipe. Tips for Choosing a Pipe (http://www.cigarbum.com/forum/showthread.php?3631-Tips-for-Choosing-a-Pipe-(beginners))
I’ll discuss smoking pipes that you will probably need to restore to some degree and specifically avoiding pipes with collector or brand value (in this thread).
I won’t explain how to discern the difference in quality between pipes (in this thread) so I’ll suffice with the simple fact that most machine made bowls are not highly variegated in quality of briar. The main differences are in quality of finishing, grain and lack of flaws and none of these (usually) have a substantial effect on smoking quality.
Thus, seconds or second line pipes (Civic, for example, was a second line of GBD) of famous brands will tend to smoke a lot like their more expensive counterparts. Since they’re both likely to be used and somewhat abused it’s a lot more economical to buy the $15 second line rather than the $50 first.
Many pipes that you’ll see on eBay were made for companies or stores by well known factories and these pipes are called private label.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/xPUTamJC7E034zDm293P48iEqXyn5PIWwjCNi4_0aTugPZBMML b0AJlU_maTND1UYZq0P8qLXddaj4_pBl0Ylyozs0zNaSH5g-8p_TOQtCk9EPvCWFrlzPXjv64GrchmeLPOia4
Fig - 1. Charatan Cavalier
Fig - 1 is a branded Charatan in the (distinctive) cavalier shape that was also available as a 2nd or a private label. To be marked as a Charatan the bowl would have been clean (no fills), better finished and perhaps well grained but the briar would be similar across marques. If you see this shape in a ‘no name’ pipe it’s a good bet to have been made by Charatan.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/Ly7gGqf6g9zLEggW2h6rLAL20j3EfRzes_w1A_8OT1kwMz76sC CGUYkXmURWEdwMqU_JQmWtVYm6RBu7xuvrJ9eKQqViZkA1J8zQ 1pLKCj0GirE1BtXQZ0szkSxnBkW9G323AP0
Fig - 2. Pair of (New Haven) Owl Shop private label pipes.
Fig - 2. Like many other tobacconists of their era, the Owl Shops had pipes labeled as their brand and these are two examples, the top pipe with their store name and the bottom pipe with the Harkness name. At different points in their history they used different manufacturers for their pipes including (if I remember Mrs. St. John correctly) Sasieni. I believe that both of these were made by Weber and wouldn’t want to bet my money that either was a Sasieni product without a lot closer inspection (like in hand).
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/C6xkVPK2p17-0dqFaJ1PzuC3moaAFR1-AuOZKvBlUGyvajg1RsA7h-n3V6y7ihZZdBsZrm57_iCJNFRB2VQptZyAPvD4k_x0ABh6i4DY lEJ2kOREbYwu21szZyvFBfYbu2SGeoA
Fig - 3. Vintage Imported Briar Italian Two Piece Tobacco Smoking PIpe! (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Imported-Briar-Italian-Two-Piece-Tobacco-Smoking-Pipe-/181759689599?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a51b8c37f)
Looking for an Edge
Fig. - 3. The description tells you that the seller knows little about pipes so you should always look at these to see if the seller has missed something and perhaps you’ll score some better pipes that haven’t been fully or properly described. Also, look for misspelling of brand names that won't appear in an eBay search (fewer bidders).
I like used pipes with heavy cake because they were well smoked (and liked) by their previous owner but make certain that the cake doesn’t hide damage on the rim or that it’s caused the bowl to split.
What I see in this pipe
Well caked but should be easy to ream.
No discernable splits or rim damage.
Bowl is dull but in excellent condition.
Stem is oxidized but doesn’t show damage or much chatter.
Beading is sharp (indicator of quality).
I don’t see fills but I expect that there are some.
Stem join appears reasonably close (may push further in when cleaned).
This pipe should be an easy restore. With no nomenclature to protect the new owner should be able to get it clean and shining without a lot of effort and at a reasonable price.
Dirty isn’t bad if you can clean it. When it comes to restoration, always know what you can and can’t do.
Read the Listing Carefully
What is the nomenclature?
Any damage noted?
What is their return policy?
Dimensions of the pipe (you need at least length or bowl height).
Shipping charge (combined shipping if applicable).
Where is the seller located (overseas can be a hassle and is $$$ to ship).
You want to look for pipes that meet your needs, aesthetic and that appear sound. Use care in buying pipes that look ‘fancy’ if you intend to smoke them. Some of the Swiss type Tyrolean pipes looked very neat and are near impossible to smoke and clean. If you’re smoking the pipe, be practical.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/ecxVHeQM21_o7Byd7FfdMRdRMPV-n2r9JcVdEwtZvofv_p0wJwLViSVoiZMQTwm0pq5IuZkWNRdhbj PSmtbLksKXyftsjsb8GSbeKkl5Do7lsVL-E-PfO3zo7LwaR-hpyiVP-hM
Fig - 4. A Swiss type souvenir pipe that you won’t want to smoke.
Know what you can’t restore or repair (yes, I'm repeating myself). Damaged stems, in most cases, means that you’ll need to get it repaired. Factor the cost and trouble when bidding.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/c_L5QoXr3wuMDj_HUqqdB8NoKdcZANY0zEvP_24CmH2e04CnLv rEDGXng-ScphenDvk1UupOqjwTZHs_ZlSC5ALmzA3CCEUePZbAMTSDglDC zijqfpvmWP4YGBnuC9_h8KAGKRU
Fig - 5. Inexpensive wind cap pipe. Description said good condition and mentioned nothing about the chewed through stem. Look carefully at the pictures for what’s not said.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/cZscCNlWUqb_djnCZIwv5HSV4z2apO2EmKMCsoM3hpJU1T8hbv d1-hwvmjhdcWBMrSnybWhqbHej3ZU2ZPXndtn8VN8D3FhQJZQSN5u ZM93Zyfnfa7Emzneq44MzqGw-gAeHn5g
Fig - 6. (GBD) The rim conditional is abysmal, burnt and banged to a pulp. To restore this pipe you’d have to make it a pot but the rest of it wasn’t worth your time.
Past the basics
It’s a great idea to learn at least some rudimentary ideas about how pipes were manufactured in different eras. Some 1930s pipes are very nice with stems that are a bear to clench because they’re often thick, rounded or quasi- P-lips that are hard to push pipe cleaners through. French made seconds or second lines that say Algerian Briar usually were made in the 1960s or before. Kaywoodie has such a long history that it behooves their bidders to be able to date them. Know the manufacturers in England (for example) in the 1960s - who was making pipes then? Etc.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/V3f-JgzKNV04XlSBawkgA_J3e1c6_vDg3_BTGA-HxKVM-pefi5vhyi-1mPCkRw9D_ec7r24joes4iQOXgJt0WC3p_KobGMFZkzTRHV7eF WrjTYI_hYDQ4HVaNM0fNjOOsGLh0tM
Fig - 7. Harvard Square - Algerian Briar (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-HARVARD-SQUARE-ALGERIAN-BRIAR-BURL-FLAME-GRAIN-BOWL-ESTATE-PIPE-Vg-NR-/201360522002?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ee205bb12)
Algerian briar isn’t necessarily better (or worse) but most pipes bearing the stamp were from the 1960s or before so you can date them. In general, briar was more plentiful and less expensive pipes were often made with better briar.
A few resources if you want to take your pipe buying to the next level:
Pipedia (http://pipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page)
Pipe Phil (http://pipephil.eu/)
Silver Hallmarks (http://www.925-1000.com/)
Pipedia is user written and flawed but you can get a lot of good information too.
Pipe Phil has a great library of nomenclature for dating.
Silver hallmarks, when you find them, usually can be dated.
Hope that this helps.
Some ideas about buying generic (briar) pipes off of the Internet and specifically eBay. Hope that it helps you avoid lemons, problems and maybe assist in finding some good values and is intended for beginners to intermediate experience.
You should know the basics of what to look for in a pipe. Tips for Choosing a Pipe (http://www.cigarbum.com/forum/showthread.php?3631-Tips-for-Choosing-a-Pipe-(beginners))
I’ll discuss smoking pipes that you will probably need to restore to some degree and specifically avoiding pipes with collector or brand value (in this thread).
I won’t explain how to discern the difference in quality between pipes (in this thread) so I’ll suffice with the simple fact that most machine made bowls are not highly variegated in quality of briar. The main differences are in quality of finishing, grain and lack of flaws and none of these (usually) have a substantial effect on smoking quality.
Thus, seconds or second line pipes (Civic, for example, was a second line of GBD) of famous brands will tend to smoke a lot like their more expensive counterparts. Since they’re both likely to be used and somewhat abused it’s a lot more economical to buy the $15 second line rather than the $50 first.
Many pipes that you’ll see on eBay were made for companies or stores by well known factories and these pipes are called private label.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/xPUTamJC7E034zDm293P48iEqXyn5PIWwjCNi4_0aTugPZBMML b0AJlU_maTND1UYZq0P8qLXddaj4_pBl0Ylyozs0zNaSH5g-8p_TOQtCk9EPvCWFrlzPXjv64GrchmeLPOia4
Fig - 1. Charatan Cavalier
Fig - 1 is a branded Charatan in the (distinctive) cavalier shape that was also available as a 2nd or a private label. To be marked as a Charatan the bowl would have been clean (no fills), better finished and perhaps well grained but the briar would be similar across marques. If you see this shape in a ‘no name’ pipe it’s a good bet to have been made by Charatan.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/Ly7gGqf6g9zLEggW2h6rLAL20j3EfRzes_w1A_8OT1kwMz76sC CGUYkXmURWEdwMqU_JQmWtVYm6RBu7xuvrJ9eKQqViZkA1J8zQ 1pLKCj0GirE1BtXQZ0szkSxnBkW9G323AP0
Fig - 2. Pair of (New Haven) Owl Shop private label pipes.
Fig - 2. Like many other tobacconists of their era, the Owl Shops had pipes labeled as their brand and these are two examples, the top pipe with their store name and the bottom pipe with the Harkness name. At different points in their history they used different manufacturers for their pipes including (if I remember Mrs. St. John correctly) Sasieni. I believe that both of these were made by Weber and wouldn’t want to bet my money that either was a Sasieni product without a lot closer inspection (like in hand).
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/C6xkVPK2p17-0dqFaJ1PzuC3moaAFR1-AuOZKvBlUGyvajg1RsA7h-n3V6y7ihZZdBsZrm57_iCJNFRB2VQptZyAPvD4k_x0ABh6i4DY lEJ2kOREbYwu21szZyvFBfYbu2SGeoA
Fig - 3. Vintage Imported Briar Italian Two Piece Tobacco Smoking PIpe! (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Imported-Briar-Italian-Two-Piece-Tobacco-Smoking-Pipe-/181759689599?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a51b8c37f)
Looking for an Edge
Fig. - 3. The description tells you that the seller knows little about pipes so you should always look at these to see if the seller has missed something and perhaps you’ll score some better pipes that haven’t been fully or properly described. Also, look for misspelling of brand names that won't appear in an eBay search (fewer bidders).
I like used pipes with heavy cake because they were well smoked (and liked) by their previous owner but make certain that the cake doesn’t hide damage on the rim or that it’s caused the bowl to split.
What I see in this pipe
Well caked but should be easy to ream.
No discernable splits or rim damage.
Bowl is dull but in excellent condition.
Stem is oxidized but doesn’t show damage or much chatter.
Beading is sharp (indicator of quality).
I don’t see fills but I expect that there are some.
Stem join appears reasonably close (may push further in when cleaned).
This pipe should be an easy restore. With no nomenclature to protect the new owner should be able to get it clean and shining without a lot of effort and at a reasonable price.
Dirty isn’t bad if you can clean it. When it comes to restoration, always know what you can and can’t do.
Read the Listing Carefully
What is the nomenclature?
Any damage noted?
What is their return policy?
Dimensions of the pipe (you need at least length or bowl height).
Shipping charge (combined shipping if applicable).
Where is the seller located (overseas can be a hassle and is $$$ to ship).
You want to look for pipes that meet your needs, aesthetic and that appear sound. Use care in buying pipes that look ‘fancy’ if you intend to smoke them. Some of the Swiss type Tyrolean pipes looked very neat and are near impossible to smoke and clean. If you’re smoking the pipe, be practical.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/ecxVHeQM21_o7Byd7FfdMRdRMPV-n2r9JcVdEwtZvofv_p0wJwLViSVoiZMQTwm0pq5IuZkWNRdhbj PSmtbLksKXyftsjsb8GSbeKkl5Do7lsVL-E-PfO3zo7LwaR-hpyiVP-hM
Fig - 4. A Swiss type souvenir pipe that you won’t want to smoke.
Know what you can’t restore or repair (yes, I'm repeating myself). Damaged stems, in most cases, means that you’ll need to get it repaired. Factor the cost and trouble when bidding.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/c_L5QoXr3wuMDj_HUqqdB8NoKdcZANY0zEvP_24CmH2e04CnLv rEDGXng-ScphenDvk1UupOqjwTZHs_ZlSC5ALmzA3CCEUePZbAMTSDglDC zijqfpvmWP4YGBnuC9_h8KAGKRU
Fig - 5. Inexpensive wind cap pipe. Description said good condition and mentioned nothing about the chewed through stem. Look carefully at the pictures for what’s not said.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/cZscCNlWUqb_djnCZIwv5HSV4z2apO2EmKMCsoM3hpJU1T8hbv d1-hwvmjhdcWBMrSnybWhqbHej3ZU2ZPXndtn8VN8D3FhQJZQSN5u ZM93Zyfnfa7Emzneq44MzqGw-gAeHn5g
Fig - 6. (GBD) The rim conditional is abysmal, burnt and banged to a pulp. To restore this pipe you’d have to make it a pot but the rest of it wasn’t worth your time.
Past the basics
It’s a great idea to learn at least some rudimentary ideas about how pipes were manufactured in different eras. Some 1930s pipes are very nice with stems that are a bear to clench because they’re often thick, rounded or quasi- P-lips that are hard to push pipe cleaners through. French made seconds or second lines that say Algerian Briar usually were made in the 1960s or before. Kaywoodie has such a long history that it behooves their bidders to be able to date them. Know the manufacturers in England (for example) in the 1960s - who was making pipes then? Etc.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/V3f-JgzKNV04XlSBawkgA_J3e1c6_vDg3_BTGA-HxKVM-pefi5vhyi-1mPCkRw9D_ec7r24joes4iQOXgJt0WC3p_KobGMFZkzTRHV7eF WrjTYI_hYDQ4HVaNM0fNjOOsGLh0tM
Fig - 7. Harvard Square - Algerian Briar (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-HARVARD-SQUARE-ALGERIAN-BRIAR-BURL-FLAME-GRAIN-BOWL-ESTATE-PIPE-Vg-NR-/201360522002?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ee205bb12)
Algerian briar isn’t necessarily better (or worse) but most pipes bearing the stamp were from the 1960s or before so you can date them. In general, briar was more plentiful and less expensive pipes were often made with better briar.
A few resources if you want to take your pipe buying to the next level:
Pipedia (http://pipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page)
Pipe Phil (http://pipephil.eu/)
Silver Hallmarks (http://www.925-1000.com/)
Pipedia is user written and flawed but you can get a lot of good information too.
Pipe Phil has a great library of nomenclature for dating.
Silver hallmarks, when you find them, usually can be dated.
Hope that this helps.