View Full Version : Detergent taste
Hi all,
I saw in another thread here in the pipe section that a couple of people had experienced a detergent like taste and it rang a bell for me. I purchased some Kendal Rum Flake made by Gawith and Hoggarth and I thought it was mostly unsmokeable because of this awful chemical detergent taste. WHat on Earth is this from and can I do anything about it?
Emperor Zurg
02-10-2015, 04:14 PM
LMAO! That awful flavor is called the 'Lakeland Essence'. Some people actually like it - albeit probably folks who were not disciplined as kids by having their mouth washed out with soap for saying a bad word. I've resolved to research any SG or GH&Co tobacco I'm thinking of buying to make sure it's not considered a Lakeland blend because if it is, I ain't going to like it.
The good news is I've found it diminishes greatly with neglect... er... 'aging'. I had a tin of Bob's Chocolate Flake that had that nasty flavor and I couldn't stand the stuff. I chucked it in the back of a drawer for about a year, never bothering to seal it up or anything. It dried out to resemble brittle slices of tree bark. For some reason I decided to re-hydrate it with a little rum a couple months back and gave it another try. Lo and behold, the Lakeland soap taste was virtually gone.
I just picked up some GH&Co Rum Flake too (@Branzig is to blame for this) and I can't stand it either. I plan to give it the same treatment and see how it is in a year or so since the BCF isn't bad at all now.
Nature
02-10-2015, 04:22 PM
Although my experience is limited, I have detected this taste reminding me of soap a few times. I actually kind of like it, although I think it is more of a floral taste. Many soaps are perfumed with floral notes, but we often associate it as being soapy or detergent like because that is what we are familiar with. Taste and smell are described or associated with our past experiences and comparing to what we know.
Pugsley
02-10-2015, 04:25 PM
Anything with latakia tastes like soap to me, never could get used to it.
mooster
02-10-2015, 05:25 PM
The good news is I've found it diminishes greatly with neglect... er... 'aging'. I had a tin of Bob's Chocolate Flake that had that nasty flavor and I couldn't stand the stuff. I chucked it in the back of a drawer for about a year, never bothering to seal it up or anything. It dried out to resemble brittle slices of tree bark. For some reason I decided to re-hydrate it with a little rum a couple months back and gave it another try. Lo and behold, the Lakeland soap taste was virtually gone.
Key point: not sealed! I opened a jar of Bright CR Flake that had been sealed for three years, and the essence was much stronger than when it was fresh. Completely unsmokable for me.
Tobias Lutz
02-10-2015, 05:33 PM
I smoke a Lakeland and it gives me flashbacks to having my mouth washed out with a bar of Ivory by my granny. That said, I never noticed it in Bob's Chocolate Flake...it's one of my favorite flakes.
StoneDog
02-10-2015, 06:51 PM
PMR, if you think that's bad stay away from the horror known as Ennerdale Flake.
The first time I tried Latakia (GL Pease Westminster) I could swear I'd just gargled with Calamine lotion. After improving my technique (that is, slowing down on the puffing and just relaxing) the flavors calmed down and became quite enjoyable.
cigarsarge
02-10-2015, 06:53 PM
I love lakelands...Send any unwanted to me. Love Condor, Ennerdale, ect.
cigarsarge, one tin of GH&Co Rum Flake with only one bowl missing is yours. PM your address.
cigarsarge
02-10-2015, 08:44 PM
Many thanks PMR.
Branzig
02-10-2015, 11:46 PM
I just picked up some GH&Co Rum Flake too (@Branzig is to blame for this) and I can't stand it either. I plan to give it the same treatment and see how it is in a year or so since the BCF isn't bad at all now.
You guys are all haterz!!!
You love some Rum Flake Zerg! :p
To be fair, my sample had a lot of rest on it, so the essence probably had leaked away leaving only great rum and Va flavor behind.
But if it had a little soap to it, I would be OK with that...nothing wrong with a little lavender with your rum kids....
Nachman
02-11-2015, 08:32 AM
Americans are not used to floral flovours in anything but soaps and perfumes, but in the UK candies and other sweets are often flavoured with floral notes such as lavender and rose. Floral and Herbal flavourings were all that were allowed by the old Purity Laws which were passed to prevent adulteration of foods and tobacco. These laws have since been repealed and American style aeromatics which are full of chemicals and artificial flavours have been introduced in the UK. Those flavours seem strange to a Britt in tobacco, however and have not been too popular.
Tobias Lutz
02-11-2015, 09:01 AM
Americans are not used to floral flovours in anything but soaps and perfumes, but in the UK candies and other sweets are often flavoured with floral notes such as lavender and rose. Floral and Herbal flavourings were all that were allowed by the old Purity Laws which were passed to prevent adulteration of foods and tobacco. These laws have since been repealed and American style aeromatics which are full of chemicals and artificial flavours have been introduced in the UK. Those flavours seem strange to a Britt in tobacco, however and have not been too popular.
Maybe I'm off track here, but is there a relationship between this and the flavours in Earl Grey tea?
Nachman
02-11-2015, 09:10 AM
Maybe I'm off track here, but is there a relationship between this and the flavours in Earl Grey tea?
The flavour in Earl Grey tea is Bergamot, which is a citrus fruit grown mainly in the Mediterranean region. It is found in some pipe tobaccos, but is most commonly used in nasal snuff. All SP snuffs and several others have this flavour. If you want to try a good SP. I recommend Wilson of Sharrow's Gold label. I think in addition to the Bergamot, it has a little lavender.
Emperor Zurg
02-11-2015, 09:23 AM
Hey, I love Earl Grey tea. Especially with a bowl of Nightcap in the evening.
izkeh
02-11-2015, 09:27 AM
Anything with latakia tastes like soap to me, never could get used to it.
It took me about 4 or 5 months to acquire the taste for latakia. Like you, I thought it had a soapy taste initially. Now I love the stuff.
izkeh
02-11-2015, 09:30 AM
The flavour in Earl Grey tea is Bergamot, which is a citrus fruit grown mainly in the Mediterranean region. It is found in some pipe tobaccos, but is most commonly used in nasal snuff. All SP snuffs and several others have this flavour. If you want to try a good SP. I recommend Wilson of Sharrow's Gold label. I think in addition to the Bergamot, it has a little lavender.
I will add Tom Buck to the list of bergamot snuffs. It's my favorite snuff.
I've only tried a few Latakias and really don't enjoy them all of the time. They do seem to sometimes have a floral note. That mixed with some of the smokiness is hard for me to enjoy. But I do like the lighter more balanced blends. (Read balanced as muted)
Alligator Gar
04-05-2015, 02:28 PM
I'm smoking C&D Star of the East which is billed as half Latakia. I'm new to pipes but not new to tobacco, so take this for what it's worth. Latakia tastes like Cilantro to me, which in turn tastes like Ivory soap. My Texan wife craved cilantro during one of her pregnancies and I've consequently eaten bushels of the stuff. I acquired a taste for it and have spotted it in Cuban cigars on occasion. I suspect I'd like Lakeland, but that's TBD!
Branzig
04-05-2015, 02:43 PM
I'm smoking C&D Star of the East which is billed as half Latakia. I'm new to pipes but not new to tobacco, so take this for what it's worth. Latakia tastes like Cilantro to me, which in turn tastes like Ivory soap. My Texan wife craved cilantro during one of her pregnancies and I've consequently eaten bushels of the stuff. I acquired a taste for it and have spotted it in Cuban cigars on occasion. I suspect I'd like Lakeland, but that's TBD!
Just be aware that Lakelands don't taste anything like cilantro :p
If you dig chewing on a Geranium, Lavender, or Heliotrope, then maybe Lakelands are for you! I love the stuff myself :pipe:
Alligator Gar
04-05-2015, 02:53 PM
Just be aware that Lakelands don't taste anything like cilantro :p
If you dig chewing on a Geranium, Lavender, or Heliotrope, then maybe Lakelands are for you! I love the stuff myself :pipe:
Ah, OK. Tobias said "I smoke a Lakeland and it gives me flashbacks to having my mouth washed out with a bar of Ivory by my granny." Chewing those flowers sounds worse than eating soap, to be honest.
Branzig
04-05-2015, 03:00 PM
Ah, OK. Tobias said "I smoke a Lakeland and it gives me flashbacks to having my mouth washed out with a bar of Ivory by my granny." Chewing those flowers sounds worse than eating soap, to be honest.
Some people taste soap. Some people say it tastes like a urinal cake smells.
All I get is sweet floral essence out of it. Very good stuff IMO. But it is a very love it or hate genre it seems. The lighter topped varieties are really good too.
A starting point would be Samuel Gawith's Kendal Cream Flake. It is very lightly topped with a sweet essence that goes great with the VaBur. But if you really want to taste the Lakeland taste without having to search for it, be brave and get some Kendal Flake from Gawith Hoggarth & Co.
Cool Breeze
04-05-2015, 08:49 PM
Anything with latakia tastes like soap to me, never could get used to it.
I wondered if I was the only one that thought this.
There are a few latakia blends that I enjoy but I'm not a fan of most of them. It is also something I have to be in the mood for.
455 Punch
04-05-2015, 09:06 PM
I've never tasted Lakeland essences, but do like Latakias. A floral flavor that I don't enjoy comes in some Greek/Mediteranian/Middle Eastern desserts like baklava and other sweets - rose water and orange blossom water are some of their ingredients. Is that anything close to what Lakeland is like?
Branzig
04-05-2015, 11:46 PM
Is that anything close to what Lakeland is like?
No, not really :lol:
See my earlier post about chomping on some lavender, geranium, or heliotrope flowers :pipe:
It is a lot like chewing very pungent spring flowers. Like getting your mouth washed out with soap when you were a kid. Its awful.
Cuban cigars, not exactly like that in them. But, you're not too far off on some of the "floral" notes described in some. I had a cigar not long ago that was light in profile and had a very floral scent and taste. Reminiscent of Lakeland but not too close. But still Terrible.
NeverBend
04-06-2015, 09:34 AM
Key point: not sealed! I opened a jar of Bright CR Flake that had been sealed for three years, and the essence was much stronger than when it was fresh. Completely unsmokable for me.
mooster makes a good point.
Sensitivity to the lakeland essence appears to be individual and changes with blend and even which Gawith made it. Some smokers say that they detect the 'essence' in anything that the Gawiths (Samuel and Hoggarth) make at all.
I don't detect the 'essence' in Bright CR Flake (but I heed Mark's warning that it may intensify) or Louisiana Flake, just little in Glengarry and Scotch Flake Aro but as soon as it passes a threshold of intensity I find it almost overwhelming as in Ennerdale, SG 1792 Flake or #7 Broken Flake.
I smell the essence more in Gawith Hoggarth but taste it more in Samuel Gawith. What they all have in common is that they're well made tobaccos and I find the essence to be less intense with a more loose pack.