Long, round, firm, porous containers for kitty litter

[Ropey]

Being thinking of taking a giant leap into kitty litter.

For cigar humidification. Got some "Mimi" brand $4 for 4 lbs at Walmart.

However, I don't really care for the idea of using nylons to hold it in a big, somewhat-spherical blob. I use several smallish tupperdors, and something like that would fill the space poorly.

Therefore I'm thinking about using some aluminum tubos with holes punched in them. I'm just not sure if they would allow enough vapor transfer and I obviously don't want anything to mold.

Here's a pic, lemme know if you think something like this would work for some 40-count tupperdors:

http://i810.photobucket.com/albums/zz23/sxyzzz/0310151605_zps18t2rudm.jpg

If anyone has any other ideas for a good, cheap container like the above, I'm all ears.

[TreySC]

Don't know why it wouldn't work. I've seen other guys use single cigar coffins with holes drilled in them.

[Tobias Lutz]

I think that would work fine

[gordo1473]

Only one way to find out

[Ropey]

Woops I've already experienced the downside of kitty litter: the fact that its performance depends almost entirely on the amount of water that's in it. I thought I read that it had a "set-point" of 68 RH. Guess not. :(

I made two of the above tubos and put some KL in one. Poured some distilled water in, shook it a little, capped it, and stuck it in a plastic bag with a hygrometer. After about 10 minutes it was rock-solid at 68. I thought "Great!"

Then I took some more KL, put it in the other tubo, wet it, shook it and stuck it in an identical plastic bag. Guess I used slightly less water this time, because the hygrometer went down to 62! I pulled out the tubo and added a little bit more water, put it back in the bag. Currently the hygrometer reads 74 and rising!

Not sure I'm gonna stick with the KL. Already seems like more work and uncertainty than I want to deal with. I don't want to have to measure water and so forth to find just the right balance.

Guess the Heartfelt beads are "pre-trained" for a specific RH... maybe I'll think about those.

[OnePyroTec]

A little history on Kitty Liter. The first people who figured out it works and started pushing the concept were laughed at severely from guys & gals who "knew" these guys were crackpots. Over time, peoples minds were changed one person with an open mind at a time until no one (or not many) is laughing at using Kitty Littler any longer. I had the pleasure of having dinner with one of the innovators of using Kitty Litter just over a decade ago. I asked him point blank "how does it work?" He said it is the simplest thing you could ever think of. He told me to "train" Kitty Litter, you simply put it in an ice chest with a Cigar Oasis that is set to what ever % you want to have...be it 65% or 70% or anything else...and close the lid for a couple weeks. When that fan quits coming on you know you are at your desired humidity level and you are good to go.

[Ropey]

He said it is the simplest thing you could ever think of. He told me to "train" Kitty Litter, you simply put it in an ice chest with a Cigar Oasis that is set to what ever % you want to have...be it 65% or 70% or anything else...and close the lid for a couple weeks. When that fan quits coming on you know you are at your desired humidity level and you are good to go.That's not the simplest thing I could ever think of.

Especially since I have neither an ice chest nor a Cigar Oasis. And I don't particularly want to screw around with a cigar humidification system.

Bovedas -- which I've been using -- are 0% maintenance. My only problem is that they are "slow to respond" to temperature-change-induced RH swings.

I'm not the type of guy who laughs at a new idea or laughs at the concept of using KL for humidification. I've read old threads where people got into huge arguments about KL vs non-KL. I really don't care either way. I just want something that's as little maintenance as I can have; I have enough to occupy my mind.

If HF beads lock on to a certain RH and don't let go, then I'll be happy to throw those in my DIY containers.

(FYI, my DIY containers seem to work well with vapor transmission. There are 16 columns of pushpin-punched holes in each tubo. Punching the holes was extremely easy, though a bit time-consuming. I just eyeballed it. I used La Gloria Cubana 'Gloria en Cedro' tubos for the project.)

[OnePyroTec]

I wasn't suggesting for you to condition the KL, simply giving the history behind them.

I'm curious what would be an easier or more simple way of conditioning KL to a desired humidity level.

[Ropey]

I'm curious what would be an easier or more simple way of conditioning KL to a desired humidity level.Believe me, I am too.

Until one is found, I'm gonna have to bite the bullet and get some HF beads.

[steelman]

This is what I do (and did). It seems to me KL with no water will give me a RH of 62%. BTW I use an aquarium filter bag to hold mine for a wineador and use 2 tubos as you did in my 70 count humidor. If you need to raise the RH for your preference, spray distilled water (2 or 3 squirts) and then shut your door. This will raise the RH. Then go from there, squirt a little more several hours later if you want it higher or leave it if it is at a suitable RH for you. It holds at that RH very well but if you notice the RH dropping then give it a couple more squirts.

This may not be as precise as the Oasis method but is suitable for my purposes.
I was told not to pour water on the KL as it would wash away the salt thus limiting its effectiveness but can't verify how true this statement is.

Either way use it or don't use it. Whatever your comfort zone tells you. It has always worked well for me and I have no plans to use any other method besides the odd Boveda pack for a traveldor.

Cheers....:stogie:

[cheaphumidors]

Seriously? No one is going to comment on the phrasing of the title of this thread? Am I the only one whose mind is in the gutter?

But back on topic, that tube looks like a pretty darn good idea. If that doesn't work, you can try swapping the foam out of a traditional travel humidifier with beads, or a DryMistat tube and chuck the crystals.

[Upstatemax]

Woops I've already experienced the downside of kitty litter: the fact that its performance depends almost entirely on the amount of water that's in it. I thought I read that it had a "set-point" of 68 RH. Guess not. :(

I made two of the above tubos and put some KL in one. Poured some distilled water in, shook it a little, capped it, and stuck it in a plastic bag with a hygrometer. After about 10 minutes it was rock-solid at 68. I thought "Great!"

Then I took some more KL, put it in the other tubo, wet it, shook it and stuck it in an identical plastic bag. Guess I used slightly less water this time, because the hygrometer went down to 62! I pulled out the tubo and added a little bit more water, put it back in the bag. Currently the hygrometer reads 74 and rising!

Not sure I'm gonna stick with the KL. Already seems like more work and uncertainty than I want to deal with. I don't want to have to measure water and so forth to find just the right balance.

Guess the Heartfelt beads are "pre-trained" for a specific RH... maybe I'll think about those.

It sounds like you barely gave it a chance to work...

Pretty much all of these systems need at least a few days to level off. Especially if you add water directly to the litter. It's immediate reaction seems to be to push moisture out. That's why a lot of people place a water source near it and let it absorb water vapor, to avoid humidity spikes and damaging the crystals.

[Sticky B]

Sounds to me like OP has a misunderstanding of how KL works.

If you just add water to HF beads and put them into the container, they won't just read whatever RH they were designed for either. That's not how you use this type of media.

A grasp of the concepts makes using these things a whole lot easier.

But first: what is your desired RH? Honestly, I would have kept the one that was at 62, and probably not added water to any of it. Perfect, works right out of the bag.


Seriously? No one is going to comment on the phrasing of the title of this thread? Am I the only one whose mind is in the gutter?

Nope. Not the only one- why do you think any of us actually clicked on this thread?

As (mostly) men, we've already (mostly) all learned to pretend like we're not looking at something once we're caught, or in this case, when it's not there.

[cheaphumidors]

Nope. Not the only one- why do you think any of us actually clicked on this thread?

As (mostly) men, we've already (mostly) all learned to pretend like we're not looking at something once we're caught, or in this case, when it's not there.

Whew! I thought maybe I had been hanging around cigar forums too long :)

[Ropey]

Heartfelt adds salts to their beads. Kitty litter has no salts added. These salts allow the silica to regulate humidity to a certain point. Without the salts, it doesn't. From the HF web site:

"DO NOT immerse you[r] beads in distilled water or dip the beads in distilled water. Trying to add distilled water this way will ultimately rinse out the salts that the beads are impregnated with. This rinsing off of the salts will ultimately make the beads not be able to hold the given rh level that they are set for."

Only HF will regulate to a certain RH. Kitty litter will not, because it's not impregnated with the necessary salts, because to absorb cat pee it doesn't need to be.

[tmoran]

I use KL, but in combination with active humidification. HF beads still need to be maintained, just slightly less than KL. If you want as little maintenance as possible without active humidification, Boveda is the way to go.

[lowrider58]

Place your KL in a sealed container (Tupperware) with your boveda packs of your choice.
Seal and let sit a few days, the KL will stabilize to that RH.
After that a light spriz when it drops to maintain.

[Ropey]

Place your KL in a sealed container (Tupperware) with your boveda packs of your choice.
Seal and let sit a few days, the KL will stabilize to that RH.
I could do that, or I could just put the Boveda packs in with the cigars ;)

It just seems like every KL method is more complex than some other method. It was my mistake for thinking that KL regulated to a set RH by itself.

So this is what I've decided to do: I will use the Boveda packs in conjunction with the KL. The (well-saturated) KL will ensure the RH doesn't drop too low as well as "recharge" the Boveda packs constantly; the Boveda packs will ensure that the RH doesn't go over a certain amount.

In the dry air here, and especially in my wooden humidor, things tend to run a couple % under the Boveda pack spec. During the winter, my Boveda 65s were providing no more than 60%. But with the KL, the % stays rock-steady at the spec of the Boveda. eg. the 65s are exactly at 65.

[Browns7213]

I use KL alone and in combination with HF beads with good results. To your original question, yes drilling the tubes will work, but its all about surface area so you will need quite a few of them to equal what a bag, stocking or container of it could provide. The other downside is that Mimi litter is made with much smaller crystals than Exquiste Car so you will have some dust around your tubes.
cheaphumidors- yes my mind went where yours did as well.

[Engineer99]

You had me at long round and firm...:highly_amused:

I have coffins that with holes drilled on the top and sides. Exposure to surface area is important, so using the KL that has the big crystals is preferable. My coolers and desktop humi are remarkably stable.

[MataFina]

Kayla, I believe that we ALL were thinking the same. We are guys and gutter is in our heads 24/7 but we have to try and act like mature men, not the grown boys we really are...


Seriously? No one is going to comment on the phrasing of the title of this thread? Am I the only one whose mind is in the gutter?

But back on topic, that tube looks like a pretty darn good idea. If that doesn't work, you can try swapping the foam out of a traditional travel humidifier with beads, or a DryMistat tube and chuck the crystals.

[Jaybird]

Seriously? No one is going to comment on the phrasing of the title of this thread? Am I the only one whose mind is in the gutter?

But back on topic, that tube looks like a pretty darn good idea. If that doesn't work, you can try swapping the foam out of a traditional travel humidifier with beads, or a DryMistat tube and chuck the crystals.


I new I loved your personality! Baaahhhhaaaaaaaa First thing I thought of was, WHAT? LMAO!

OK I didn't read ALL the feedback. But I do use KL in my foot locker and this is how I do it.
I have a few (3) small nylon bags http://www.norcalbrewingsolutions.com/store/Hop_Bag_Nylon_6x8.html is what I use. I filled them about 3/4 of the way and added water till they were DAMP. put THAT in a plastic zip lock bag and left open. Now I use that for my humidity and I use about 15 or so Boveda packs at whatever RH I want. The KL adds the RH the Boveda packs stabilize it. STUPID SIMPLE! If my Boveda packs seem SUPER full I simply remove the KL for awhile (few weeks/months) its as simple as it gets!

Cheers
Jay