Newb question about tinned vs. bulk tobacco

[Cool Breeze]

I'm just wondering if there is any differences in the flavors of tobaccos in tinned vs their bulk counterparts.

For instance I really enjoy Dunhill Nightcap. If I ordered a couple ounces bulk and a tin would there be any flavor or burn differences?
Or is it just the same exact tobacco that they charge a little extra for to put it in a tin?

Forgive the silly question, but I have no clue. :pipe:

[cpmcdill]

Probably makes more of a difference if you buy tobacco to age. Some people buy tins and let them cellar for a few years. If your goal is to start smoking them right off the truck, bulk is a more economic way to go. blends should be identical.

[Pugsley]

Forgive the silly question, but I have no clue. :pipe:

Not a silly question at all, although I have no answer for you since I rarely buy bulk.

[OnePyroTec]

I don't buy both of the same blend either. It is always one or the other for me.
In theory, they are all the same. Bulk is made in large batches then shipped out for by the ounce sales, and tinned is made in large batches then divided up for small tins. The blend is the same, or is supposed to be.

FOR a definite answer, it sounds like a job for JimInks. Not many have smoked more pipes than he.

[LandonColby]

Same exact tobacco, maybe a slight difference in flavor because bulk is usually expose to the air more than tins are (obviously...).
but that's it.

[Cool Breeze]

Thanks guys. I'm just looking at it from an economical point of view.
I don't care at all about the tin. If I'm wanting to age, I'll gladly save a few dollars and store it in a mason jar.

[mooster]

The only difference I've ever noticed is the cut, not the taste. For example, FVF flakes in bulk are a lot longer than the ones in the tin, but they taste the same to me.

[Tobias Lutz]

The only difference I've ever noticed is the cut, not the taste. For example, FVF flakes in bulk are a lot longer than the ones in the tin, but they taste the same to me.

This has been my experience. I recently unloaded the majority of my tins in favor of sticking with bulk cellaring..though I'll admit, I do enjoy digging through piles of tins with labels more than generic mason jars. The tin art is just another facet of the experience IMO.

[Branzig]

I have smoked both the tin version of Nightcap and the bulk. Both are pretty much the same. I will admit that the tin version does have a stronger aroma when the tin is first opened...but that goes away rather quickly and the flavors are identical to me.

[mooster]

Here's an oddity that I've noticed, though I'm sure it's all in my head: I think Orlik Golden Sliced tastes much better in the 50gm tin than the 100gm tin. I'm sure it's just my fondness for those little flakes doing a number on my head, but still...

[OnePyroTec]

Here's an oddity that I've noticed, though I'm sure it's all in my head: I think Orlik Golden Sliced tastes much better in the 50gm tin than the 100gm tin. I'm sure it's just my fondness for those little flakes doing a number on my head, but still...
This I will be checking out soon. I bought my first 100g tin instead of the normal 50g tins I have always bought in the past.

[johnnyflake]

I believe that in some cases a difference does exist. Differences exist between between companies on how and where tobaccos are blended. From what I recall sometime back while doing some research and I believe it was with Orlik, that the tins were made in Europe and the bulks are produced in the USA. The same was true for other companies as well. That would mean tobacco from different areas were used to produce the same blends. IMHO, that would mean that there would be minor differences in the flavor profile of the tinned tobacco vs the bulk tobacco.

Also, the flavors of tinned tobacco will mature much more quickly that bulk tobacco.

[El Whedo]

I think it depends on the brand.

I can't tell tinned Dunhill products from bulk. Exactly the same to my taste.

But some other manufacturers are different. One example that comes to mind would be Bob's Chocolate Flake. It's always the same outta a tin, but the bulk isn't ever the same twice. Sometimes the Lakeland essence is stronger, sometimes weaker, and sometimes not there at all.

[Cool Breeze]

Also, the flavors of tinned tobacco will mature much more quickly that bulk tobacco.

So does that mean if I'm wanting to age it I should buy the tins and set them aside?
I ask because I've heard a lot of people who take it out of the tins and transfer to jars to age.

This seems counter-productive to me because it means you've lost whatever time the tobacco has already been in the tin.
Of course I know some tins are very tightly packed and others like Hearth and Home are not packed tightly in the tin, so there is some air inside. I would assume the air is good for the aging process.

Maybe I'm thinking about it wrong though. I appreciate everyone's input and any further information is welcome as well.

[JimInks]

The reason some find differences between bulk and tin is mostly because the bulk is stored in plastic bags, which are permeable to air even if the big isn't opened much. The more you open it, the greater exposure to air, and the chances of diluting the strength of the toppings (if any exist) and the tobacco itself. Also, once a tobacco is tinned, it starts aging immediately. That doesn't happen with bulk.

The reason FVF, SJF, etc., are cut differently for tins is obvious: to make them fit.

[johnnyflake]

So does that mean if I'm wanting to age it I should buy the tins and set them aside?
I ask because I've heard a lot of people who take it out of the tins and transfer to jars to age.

This seems counter-productive to me because it means you've lost whatever time the tobacco has already been in the tin.
Of course I know some tins are very tightly packed and others like Hearth and Home are not packed tightly in the tin, so there is some air inside. I would assume the air is good for the aging process.

Maybe I'm thinking about it wrong though. I appreciate everyone's input and any further information is welcome as well.

Tins are the very best way to age tobacco, for the greatest effect/results. However, before putting a tin away for long term storage be sure that it is properly sealed. About 10% of the tins you buy will not be properly sealed, even though they appear to be. Here is a simple test to find out. Take a tin that you plan to age and place it in fresh, new, sandwich size baggie and seal it. Put it somewhere to set for a week. After a week, open the baggie very slowly and place the opening, as you are opening it, by your nose. If you smell a distinct aroma of tobacco, it's not sealed properly, so smoke it up, it is not worthy of being aged/stored. If you do not smell any tobacco are just the faintest hint of tobacco, it is properly sealed and good for long term storage.

[NeverBend]

Tins are the very best way to age tobacco, for the greatest effect/results. However, before putting a tin away for long term storage be sure that it is properly sealed. About 10% of the tins you buy will not be properly sealed, even though they appear to be. Here is a simple test to find out. Take a tin that you plan to age and place it in fresh, new, sandwich size baggie and seal it. Put it somewhere to set for a week. After a week, open the baggie very slowly and place the opening, as you are opening it, by your nose. If you smell a distinct aroma of tobacco, it's not sealed properly, so smoke it up, it is not worthy of being aged/stored. If you do not smell any tobacco are just the faintest hint of tobacco, it is properly sealed and good for long term storage.

Hi John,

Very good advice offered in this thread.

You make a very good point about the possibility that the bulk tobacco is made as a separate batch from the tins, whether in the same location or not. No two batches of tobacco are ever exactly the same through they're usually close. If a company makes separate batches for use in tins and another for bulk there will be subtle differences. If they source from different areas (as I'd presume if it's made in different locations) the differences could be more apparent.

Good point about testing the vacuum seal on the tin. Your method of testing is more definitive but if there's any give to the top of the tin it's a bad seal.

Lastly, tobacco tinned under pressure will marry faster and age more quickly. I put tobacco into mason jars with more pressure. Without pressure, the tobacco in mason jars will be ready to smoke more quickly but age less. Flakes, if left together as a cake will age well.

Pete

[Mister Moo]

So does that mean if I'm wanting to age it I should buy the tins and set them aside?
I ask because I've heard a lot of people who take it out of the tins and transfer to jars to age..

I jarred many tobaccos, including some tins, lots of bulk and all foil packed bulk. I conclude:

1. some of it ages brilliantly, shows crystals and sometimes even plumes cigar-like;
2. some of it seems to remain static and some improves a little;
3. none is worse for the experience except maybe latakia which often loses intensity*;
4. none if it ever leaks and totally craps out; and
5. johnnyflake probably knows more about this anyone I know. He been around, ya know? He been around.

*not the worst thing if virginia in a latakia blend is also improving.

[johnnyflake]

Hi John,

Very good advice offered in this thread.

You make a very good point about the possibility that the bulk tobacco is made as a separate batch from the tins, whether in the same location or not. No two batches of tobacco are ever exactly the same through they're usually close. If a company makes separate batches for use in tins and another for bulk there will be subtle differences. If they source from different areas (as I'd presume if it's made in different locations) the differences could be more apparent.

Good point about testing the vacuum seal on the tin. Your method of testing is more definitive but if there's any give to the top of the tin it's a bad seal.

Lastly, tobacco tinned under pressure will marry faster and age more quickly. I put tobacco into mason jars with more pressure. Without pressure, the tobacco in mason jars will be ready to smoke more quickly but age less. Flakes, if left together as a cake will age well.

Pete

That is a very good point!

Another way to age bulk tobacco, a way I started using about 7 years ago, is to break it up into 1.0oz, 2.0oz, & 4.0oz units and then use a food style vacuum sealing unit and the thick 8oz size sealing bags, to vacuum seal the tobaccos, in the sizes that suit your needs best. I have opened a number of them at the 3, 4 & 5 year periods and the differences are amazing, especially with Virginia and Va/Perique blends. McClelland 2015, after just 3 years, smells exactly like Chocolate Covered Cherries.

[Cool Breeze]

Another way to age bulk tobacco, a way I started using about 7 years ago, is to break it up into 1.0oz, 2.0oz, & 4.0oz units and then use a food style vacuum sealing unit and the thick 8oz size sealing bags, to vacuum seal the tobaccos, in the sizes that suit your needs best. I have opened a number of them at the 3, 4 & 5 year periods and the differences are amazing, especially with Virginia and Va/Perique blends. McClelland 2015, after just 3 years, smells exactly like Chocolate Covered Cherries.

Well, I learned something else today it looks like.
I was under the impression that it needed air to age properly.

We process our own deer so I have access to a vacuum sealer. And I have a few ounces of McClelland Red Cake that would be ideal to get started with.

[NeverBend]

Hi Johnny,

Thanks for the idea, sounds like a great way to handle the bulks (and to add pressure) that I'm going to look into immediately. Any suggestions on sealers and bags?

Pete

[NeverBend]

Hi Coolbreeze,

Tins are vacuum sealed too but short of very expensive equipment you won't remove all oxygen with a household sealer nor a manufacturer sealed tin (that seal similarly to a mason jar). I've read that the changes in taste are made by aerobic bacteria but I don't know the source of that claim nor if it's true.

At intervals over the last 25 years I've been opening tins from the late 1980s (mostly one brand) and have found that the changes are consistent with tobaccos marrying rather than bacterial activity. If 'ageing' is the gradual (usually) subtle change in flavor profile then that too is consistent with marrying. Marrying is the acceptance of characteristics (flavor, aroma) from the other leaf in a mixture (or cigar).

Dry tobacco doesn't age well, (if at all), so I assume that moisture must be an agent of change. Virginia and Carolina do not easily flavor or take on the characteristics of other leaf. Both of these points support the idea that it is extended marrying that is actually what is transpiring. This explains why latakia loses potency and Virginia ages best (especially with extended ageing). If your hope is to achieve a smoother more nuanced version of the original mixture then understand how time in a vacuum sealed package affects what type of leaf because we shouldn't be warehousing latakia mixtures in the hopes that they will marry into something similar but superior to the original only to find that after 15 years it's just a muddled reminder of what it was.

A lack of oxygen would help to inhibit mold but most manufacturers use some form of anti-fungal. Long ago, Rattray Marlin Flake was notorious for molding (1980s and before) but it was still worth the effort :).

Pete

[Cool Breeze]

If your hope is to achieve a smoother more nuanced version of the original mixture then understand how time in a vacuum sealed package affects what type of leaf because we shouldn't be warehousing latakia mixtures in the hopes that they will marry into something similar but superior to the original only to find that after 15 years it's just a muddled reminder of what it was.
Pete

Thanks Pete.
My main goal is to bring out the natural sweetness of the Virginias, which I've read aging does. It's all about natural sweet flavor for me and that's what I'm shooting for.

[johnnyflake]

Hi Johnny,

Thanks for the idea, sounds like a great way to handle the bulks (and to add pressure) that I'm going to look into immediately. Any suggestions on sealers and bags?

Pete

You will only need a basic food style vacuum sealing unit and they are the least expensive. The more expensive units come with all different kinds of bells & whistles that are not needed. I have found that the better, more expensive, pre-made, 5 or 7 mil bags in the 8.0oz size work the best.

[johnnyflake]

Hi Coolbreeze,

Tins are vacuum sealed too but short of very expensive equipment you won't remove all oxygen with a household sealer nor a manufacturer sealed tin (that seal similarly to a mason jar). I've read that the changes in taste are made by aerobic bacteria but I don't know the source of that claim nor if it's true.

At intervals over the last 25 years I've been opening tins from the late 1980s (mostly one brand) and have found that the changes are consistent with tobaccos marrying rather than bacterial activity. If 'ageing' is the gradual (usually) subtle change in flavor profile then that too is consistent with marrying. Marrying is the acceptance of characteristics (flavor, aroma) from the other leaf in a mixture (or cigar).

Dry tobacco doesn't age well, (if at all), so I assume that moisture must be an agent of change. Virginia and Carolina do not easily flavor or take on the characteristics of other leaf. Both of these points support the idea that it is extended marrying that is actually what is transpiring. This explains why latakia loses potency and Virginia ages best (especially with extended ageing). If your hope is to achieve a smoother more nuanced version of the original mixture then understand how time in a vacuum sealed package affects what type of leaf because we shouldn't be warehousing latakia mixtures in the hopes that they will marry into something similar but superior to the original only to find that after 15 years it's just a muddled reminder of what it was.

A lack of oxygen would help to inhibit mold but most manufacturers use some form of anti-fungal. Long ago, Rattray Marlin Flake was notorious for molding (1980s and before) but it was still worth the effort :).

Pete

Yes, aging is basically another word for marrying, which is actually what is going on, in the so called aging process.

Your statement "Dry tobacco doesn't age well, (if at all)" is true, if we were actually dealing with dry tobaccos, they would not age and they would taste terrible, if we tried to smoke them. Truly dry tobacco would crumble as you touched it. I don't believe dry tobacco was mentioned. The idea is to seal, bulk tobacco, in a vacuum sealed environment, with as little oxygen remaining as possible. We are not sucking any moisture out of it. What remains is tobacco filled with natural oils (where the flavors come from) and whatever moisture is left and whatever amount of PG, is in the mix and a small amount of oxygen. The micro environment that is created, is ideal for the aging/marrying process.

[mooster]

I must admit, I'm not that trusting of plastic-I'll stick with glass.

[NeverBend]

Yes, aging is basically another word for marrying, which is actually what is going on, in the so called aging process.

Your statement "Dry tobacco doesn't age well, (if at all)" is true, if we were actually dealing with dry tobaccos, they would not age and they would taste terrible, if we tried to smoke them. Truly dry tobacco would crumble as you touched it. I don't believe dry tobacco was mentioned. The idea is to seal, bulk tobacco, in a vacuum sealed environment, with as little oxygen remaining as possible. We are not sucking any moisture out of it. What remains is tobacco filled with natural oils (where the flavors come from) and whatever moisture is left and whatever amount of PG, is in the mix and a small amount of oxygen. The micro environment that is created, is ideal for the aging/marrying process.

Hi Johnny,

First, thanks for the info about the sealer and bags. I can't locate anyone selling bags thicker than 3.5 mil, do you have a source that you can share for them?

Excellent post. I was going o expand on some points but rather than hijack this thread I'll start a new one.

Pete

[johnnyflake]

Hi Johnny,

First, thanks for the info about the sealer and bags. I can't locate anyone selling bags thicker than 3.5 mil, do you have a source that you can share for them?

Excellent post. I was going o expand on some points but rather than hijack this thread I'll start a new one.

Pete

I know, I have been looking again since I responded to this thread. The 3.5 are really find and will work very well. I had found 5.0 mil on Amazon about a year, year & a half ago and picked up a 50 count package. Now I cannot find them either. I will probably order the 3.5 mil shortly.

[mooster]

Yes, aging is basically another word for marrying, which is actually what is going on, in the so called aging process.


At the risk of pissing someone off again, I don't buy this. The reason canned food products have expiration dates is because the tastes change, not because the food goes bad. (Supposedly ten year old sardines are to die for; I'll never know-I can't stand them when they're new!) And I have a hard time believing that there's any "marrying" going on inside a can of Spam.

[johnnyflake]

at the risk of pissing someone off again, i don't buy this. The reason canned food products have expiration dates is because the tastes change, not because the food goes bad. (supposedly ten year old sardines are to die for; i'll never know-i can't stand them when they're new!) and i have a hard time believing that there's any "marrying" going on inside a can of spam.

omg - really!!!

[Tobias Lutz]

At the risk of pissing someone off again, I don't buy this. The reason canned food products have expiration dates is because the tastes change, not because the food goes bad. (Supposedly ten year old sardines are to die for; I'll never know-I can't stand them when they're new!) And I have a hard time believing that there's any "marrying" going on inside a can of Spam.

A large amount of the canned food stuffs left over from WWII were burned out during the conflict in Korea.

[NeverBend]

I know, I have been looking again since I responded to this thread. The 3.5 are really find and will work very well. I had found 5.0 mil on Amazon about a year, year & a half ago and picked up a 50 count package. Now I cannot find them either. I will probably order the 3.5 mil shortly.

Hi Johnny,

I'll let you know what I find. I want the sealer for food (to freeze meat) so I'll buy accordingly but I'll order a unit this week (or week-end). Thanks again.

Pete

[mooster]

omg - really!!!

Sorry; I'm not sure what you mean.

[NeverBend]

At the risk of pissing someone off again, I don't buy this. The reason canned food products have expiration dates is because the tastes change, not because the food goes bad. (Supposedly ten year old sardines are to die for; I'll never know-I can't stand them when they're new!) And I have a hard time believing that there's any "marrying" going on inside a can of Spam.

Hi Mark,

(how've you been and how's the Jacopo smoking?)


Sorry for the tardy response.

I'm not a chemist so I can't comment on the differences in bacterial activity between Spam and Balkan Sobranie but you seem to be comparing flesh to wood and their rotting rates rather than their ageing. In all my years of making, selling and smoking tobacco the changes are only consistent with the marrying of the flavors between fermented leaves and not with the accumulation of tens of trillions of little bacterial sh*tlettes. The impacting bacterial activity in tobacco occurs when the leaf is fermented not when it's stored otherwise you get mold.

The changes in tobacco occur with air present or none at all but no change occurs if the leaf is dry. Pressure and temperature affect the rate of change but both of these influences are used during tobacco processing and their effect is known and these changes are not bacterial.

Urban legend is that Robert Rex of Drucquers Tobacconist (SF) started 'ageing' when they found a bag of their popular Cooks #5 tobacco that had been sitting around for some time. When tasted it was not only still good, many though it was superior. Robert told me this story himself in 1981 sp now you can decide if Drucquer's started the tobacco ageing craze or not. Robert sold the store the following year to open a winery (http://www.deerfieldranch.com/Winery/Winery.index.html). People have compared the ageing of tobacco to that of wine, perhaps started by Robert himself, where the agents of change are thought to be the same.

Wines and tobacco change by chemical reaction. We'd need the chemist to explain the differences between the two because wine is a liquid and tobacco only needs moisture for the changes to occur but marrying or ageing is the interaction between leaf over time when stored in a moist form where they take on characteristics of other leaf, even of he same variety.

Regards,

Pete

[mooster]

how've you been and how's the Jacopo smoking?

Which one; you created a monster... :D

To be honest, I always looked at the term "aging" as a polite way of saying "rotting rates" anyway, so yeah. I guess we're talking about different things.

[Commander Quan]

I'm just going to leave this here... http://www.glpease.com/Articles/vacuum.html

[johnnyflake]

Sorry; I'm not sure what you mean.

OMG means "Oh My God" then Really means, in this sense, a Sarcasm!

Man, your trying to compare processed foods with, zillions of additives, to something botanical and, in a sense, alive!

I'm done with this!

[mooster]

OMG means "Oh My God" then Really means, in this sense, a Sarcasm!

Man, your trying to compare processed foods with, zillions of additives, to something botanical and, in a sense, alive!

I'm done with this!
Ah, throwing a tantrum. That's what I figured, but I wasn't sure. So your brilliant theory is that "zillions of additives" (preservatives included) cause food products to decay faster than an unpreserved plant product? Interesting, but you might want to rethink it. It may also shock you to discover that some plant products are actually canned as well, and the same taste changes occur. I would have thought that you would have at least noticed canned tomatoes by now...

[BryGuySC]

I think we pride ourselves in being respectful to others.
Let's make sure we keep our disagreements congenial.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-4Je2cNLAaec/UPlOpZhNxnI/AAAAAAAADO8/yT77_iD0Zzk/s1600/troy+thumbs+up.gif

[mooster]

Sorry; poke me with a stick, and I tend to snarl. I'll watch it.

[Tobias Lutz]

Sorry; poke me with a stick, and I tend to snarl. I'll watch it.

http://talkfreethought.org/images/smilies/more/picking_a_fight.gif

Damnit! I knew we were missing an important smiley :)

[NeverBend]

Which one; you created a monster... :D

To be honest, I always looked at the term "aging" as a polite way of saying "rotting rates" anyway, so yeah. I guess we're talking about different things.

All of them - I want a full report with pictures, that's the least that you could do.

There are processes, like tanning and fermentation that retard or virtually eliminate rotting under the right conditions. Does leather normally rot? This is a decent basic explanation of fermentation.

http://www.neptunecigar.com/co/article-the_process_of_tobacco_fermentation.aspx

Fermentation is a micro organism activity that doesn't occur after it's finished. It leaves the leaf more stable and ready to be processed into a smoking product.
No, it's not rotting.

Tell me about the Jacopo pipes!

Pete

[NeverBend]

OMG means "Oh My God" then Really means, in this sense, a Sarcasm!

Man, your trying to compare processed foods with, zillions of additives, to something botanical and, in a sense, alive!

I'm done with this!

Hi Johnny,

Mooster doesn't need my testimonial but he's a good guy with a natural tendency to be skeptical. This forum needs both you you guys.

I received my Nesco VS-02 sealer. Came with a decent starter assortment of bags too so that I can see what sizes work before investing. Many thanks for your help.

In researching bags I intend to buy some with the zip-seal so that I can manually reseal the bag after I open it (and lose the vacuum). Here are some links to the bags that I found but use care on WebRestaurantStore, they have a lot of good stuff and when I've ordered before it was a decent size order. I'm sure that you are aware of this but don't buy bags made for chamber sealers, they're different (and cheaper).

6x10 resealable bags, lot of 50 for ~.17c each.
http://www.webstaurantstore.com/ary-vacmaster-946501-6-x-10-pint-size-vacuum-packaging-bag-with-zipper-3-mil-50-box/120VBM946501.html

Large lots, selection of sizes and cheap - 6 x 10 bag .06c each in lots of 1000.
http://www.uline.com/BL_5563/Vacuum-Bags

Regards,

Pete

[NeverBend]

I'm just going to leave this here... http://www.glpease.com/Articles/vacuum.html

Hi Quan,

You need to man up and say I agree or disagree otherwise you're just pooping on my foot and running away :).

This article is about a guy who knew exactly what he expected to find, did something (not scientific), in order to prove what he wanted to find. I don’t know what he did because he says nothing about the type of tobacco, moisture or any other details, except packaging, yet he still evaluates a (supposedly) vacuum sealed package where the tobacco has dried inside.....duh. The problem with the Internet is that someone writes garbage, others read it, some believe it and some poop it on other people's feet :).

He implies that the 'fully vacuum sealed' package contains a Virginia. Of course Virginia marries (ages) very slowly and they need moisture but our scientist's bag was leaking and drying.

Let's assume that he had the palate and ability to properly relate the changes that he found the question remains, what did he find?

Oxygenation. Or breathing as it’s known in wine. I call it decanting and many manufacturers package their tobacco this way, including Pease. So it was about proving Pease’ packaging superiority?

In Chicago last year a friend graciously opened a tin of 1989 Elephant & Castle, The Stout that was packaged in a round, flat vacuum pressure tin. The tobacco was too old with it’s taste withered away as many have found with old latakia mixtures. At the same show I purchased a tin of 1996 McClelland #14 that was packaged with some air and no pressure as McClelland does. It was excellent but it wouldn’t have been if it was packaged the same way that The Stout was. It wasn't under pressure so it hadn't aged a lot.

Some posts/articles discuss not smoking very old tobacco (mostly pressure / vacuum tins with old VIrginia flake) and letting them sit for several days to several weeks. Oxygenation, breathing, decanting.

Pease, McClelland, C&D, Rattrays and many more pack with their tobacco decanted. I’m sure that they love tobacco in cellars but they make their tobacco (like wineries) to be consumed immediately. It may be a cultural/traditional thing because the pressure/vacuum tins seem to be mainly made outside the States. Decanted packaging is better right out of the tin while the vacuum/pressure will age better (but can age too much). This is a generality but you can be specific by understanding the type of tobacco that you’re storing and the techniques available to you.

Test my ideas with a latakia mixture in a vacuum/pressure tin where the changes will occur more rapidly. Open the tin and smoke a bowl. Loosen (fluff it out) the remainder to the consistency of a McClelland tin tobacco. Put it into a mason jar (no need to seal it with wax or even virgin’s sweat) and leave it for a few weeks. The air in the jar will suck moisture until it achieves stasis. Tumble the tobacco as much as you like. Try the tobacco and there will be a difference.

Claims that bulks and tins are different are probably based on decanting.

Pete

[Commander Quan]

No. If I was going to crap on your foot, I would have said you are a verbose blowhard.
The article speeks for itself.

[NeverBend]

No. If I was going to crap on your foot, I would have said you are a verbose blowhard.
The article speeks for itself.

Lol! I'll take that as a yes and wipe my feet before going inside.

[johnnyflake]

Nice post NeverBend, interesting information.

[fastnbulbous]

Bulk vs Jarred tobacco.

I have not bought any tins yet. All I have are jarred bulk tobacco.

1. Would you guess that most of these bulk tobaccos have tinned counterparts, or are they housemade?
2. If a bulk tobacco is called Devonshire, does that mean it would be one of a hundred different brands?

The jarred tobaccos that I have bought seem to have generic type names, but no brand names.

3. How do I know what I am getting?
I assume the answer to this is to ask the person you buy it from, but I am just checking how many different tobaccos are out there with the same name.

[NeverBend]

Bulk vs Jarred tobacco.

I have not bought any tins yet. All I have are jarred bulk tobacco.

1. Would you guess that most of these bulk tobaccos have tinned counterparts, or are they housemade?
2. If a bulk tobacco is called Devonshire, does that mean it would be one of a hundred different brands?

The jarred tobaccos that I have bought seem to have generic type names, but no brand names.

3. How do I know what I am getting?
I assume the answer to this is to ask the person you buy it from, but I am just checking how many different tobaccos are out there with the same name.

Hi Adam,

Welcome to the pipe side of things.

Bulks can be vendor (stores - B&M, online) created blends or repackaged (wholesale) bulk that they buy. There are a finite number of bulk suppliers so either the blend itself or the components will have come from one of them. Some manufacturers sell tin and bulk versions of the same blend, like Gawith Hoggarth Bob’s Chocolate Flake (as an example).

Some vendors make their own blends, some don’t and what they tell you about the derivation of the tobacco may or not be true (they may not want to disclose their source). If it’s a bulk supplier blend then it’s sure to be sold by many vendors under different labels.

“Devonshire” sounds like a house name but I can’t tell you anything about it.

I’d suggest learning about the component leaf and the general types of blends like English, Virginia and Aromatics as a start. Try going to the online vendor sites like 4Noggins, Pipes & Cigars, PipeTobacco, etc., to get a feel for what’s out there and keep asking questions.

[Bruck]

Adam, fastnbulbous, I'm not sure if I've had enough adult beverages to fully understand your questions, but I perceive that you are in the same boat as I am regarding the sheer number of brands and blends out there. I don't have a good answer other than the usual try a number of things till you find what you like. A good website to help sort it out is tobaccoreviews.com (http://tobaccoreviews.com) - it's got reviews and basic info for thousands of blends. Some of our local bums post on it.

[Basment_Shaman]

I bought a lb of dunhill once .I think it was EMP. It was unsmokable. For dunhill I will stick with tins. Now if Sam Gawith would have Sam's flake in bulk I buy 5 Lbs. I wish they ship some FVF Plug And St James Plug stateside. I am happy with flakes in Bulk, They look like I could eat it like beef jerky

[Haebar]

I buy both bulk and tins and don't see much of a difference, with the exception of size considerations (flakes being trimmed to fit the tin). I prefer tins because of the collector and resale value. Also the artful labels on the tins are a factor. That being said, bulks are a lot cheaper per oz. and represent the best value if all you are wanting is the tobacco.