CI "Fake" Cigars?

[Sticky B]

Has anyone seen this? Anyone have any similar experiences? I thought it was interesting, even if the presenter isn't my favorite chap



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBydVPp9GJI

[DLtoker]

... Wow. What should we be looking for? Pieces falling out of the foot,

[gordo1473]

wow thats nuts

[Browns7213]

Have not, but you could always ask our CBID rep Trish if she knows what's going on with this.

[R1100RS]

How are these confirmed fakes, or switched bands as he says? When looking at CI, cigar.com and at losblanco cigars website, none of them mention they are long filler cigars. For $39/25 I don't think you should expect too much lol.

[Sticky B]

How are these confirmed fakes, or switched bands as he says? When looking at CI, cigar.com and at losblanco cigars website, none of them mention they are long filler cigars. For $39/25 I don't think you should expect too much lol.

This is kind of why I'm curious. Is this just akin to "blend changes" that haven't exactly been advertised? Or is it really stuff that should be one way being another?

Although if you read the youtube comments (my MAIN SOURCE of ACCURATE information on the webernet), there's mention of a few incidents that have supposedly occurred with cBid re: AF smokes, Opus X, etc...

[R1100RS]

Not sure what he's after. From what I hear on the video, it sounds like he's expecting them to be long filler cigars, but they're obviously not. I can't find on any sites where they say they are indeed long filler cigars. Geez I'd hate to think what the legal ramifications could be for the guy doing these videos....

[Jordan23]

Have not, but you could always ask our CBID rep Trish if she knows what's going on with this.

I saw this vid posted elsewhere and I was curious about it also. It would be nice if Trish could provide some info.

[jp1979]

Seems like a waste of time to fight this battle over an under 2 buck stick.

[MattyMatt]

I saw this vid. He was not claiming it was long filler. His review/comments/dissection were related to the quality of the short filler, which appear rather unappetizing in the video.

So his point was a comparison of how quality short filler should appear compared to the floor scraps discovered within.

[jp1979]

I saw this vid. He was not claiming it was long filler. His review/comments/dissection were related to the quality of the short filler, which appear rather unappetizing in the video.

So his point was a comparison of how quality short filler should appear compared to the floor scraps discovered within.

He titled the video, "cheap fake cigars". I don't see where the cigar is fake, the short filler is just really short

[R1100RS]

I saw this vid. He was not claiming it was long filler. His review/comments/dissection were related to the quality of the short filler, which appear rather unappetizing in the video.

So his point was a comparison of how quality short filler should appear compared to the floor scraps discovered within.

I don't know Matt, go to his website and read the main title and paragraph about these and see what you think then...

[R1100RS]

and at :53 in this vid he says its a Los Blancos Premium (it's premiere according to the websites) and says it is billed as a long filler...

[MattyMatt]

I don't know Matt, go to his website and read the main title and paragraph about these and see what you think then...

I agree that the titling and description is sensationalism and innacurate. And thanks for pointing that out as I originally saw the vid when it was part of a cigars for warrior update video. This new posting is something I had not read yet.

The cigar quality is crap though and a poor example of quality short filler. I get bigger pieces out of a bottle of oregeno. Probably would have been better to describe the video as poor quality short filler vs good quality. The "fake" angle was wrong to use.

[Marc L]

The first thing I thought was "did he just get here". I mean Bryan does seem to have a need for coming to conclusions swiftly. then, when there was no other references to long fillers anywhere, I thought wow, Trish and her buddies sure changed the descriptions fast after seeing that video. then I thought, no, maybe he has associated the "Premiere" in the title with "premium" which is an adjective or more to point, an opinion?

Maybe more to the point is, most can't handle the truth.

[jp1979]

Or the majority opinion on this guy is actually correct....

[jhedrick83]

Clicked the link, saw who it was, closed the window. He brings people into the hobby, so credit for him there. He just does some things I find questionable and his apparent attitude wears on me a bit. YMMV.

[herman]

I haven't heard of that cigar, nor have I heard of fakes.
I don't shop online often, but so far my experience with both CI and C-Bid has been top notch.

[Lostmason]

This is why I come to the Bum and read the reviews,not youtube.

[Herf N Turf]

I wish we could be more circumspect when selecting thread titles. I'd really hate for any vendor to come in here and see what appears to be MORE vendor bashing which gave the old forum such a bad name in the community and stopped virtually ALL vendors from going there.

Just a thought.

[Marc L]

I like that. well, the title thing being debatable or changed could be useful? I have had trouble with titling threads before. .. maybe this title could be "What CO should be learning today"?

Do venders just know better to allow the misled to lead the needy?

[Sticky B]

I wish we could be more circumspect when selecting thread titles. I'd really hate for any vendor to come in here and see what appears to be MORE vendor bashing which gave the old forum such a bad name in the community and stopped virtually ALL vendors from going there.

Just a thought.

Apologies, didn't consider it vendor-bashing at all. I've had nothing but positive interactions with CI, although I don't order the types of cigars he seems to be talking about.

Was just curious to see the general consensus on it - and although I don't follow CO, it seems silly to dismiss things one guys says just because you're not fond of all of his practices.


If someone from CI were to scan through this thread, I'd hope that they wouldn't come to the conclusion that anyone was bashing them - as there seems to be an overwhelming amount of support for the company here.

[Billb1960]

This video is an excerpt from one of his "Cigars for Troops" donation videos. Before this video starts he goes on & on about surplus bands being put on these short filler cigars made of "floor sweepings", customer refunds, false advertising, etc. I looked the cigars up on CI and nowhere was I able to find where they were advertised as long filler. They're selling for a $1.60 a stick. Caveat Emptor.

[wabashcr]

Probably a good service to the community to show people what's really in these cheap smokes. Would be nice if he had his ducks in a row before calling out CI, though. I think if you're going to implicate a retailer like that, you should probably be a little more clear about what's going on. Fake cigars is a bit much for me. He's right that they're garbage, though. No issue there.

I do think CI (and others) can be, shall we say, creative with the truth, when it comes to marketing their house/budget brands. They come close without actually crossing the line into deception. Lying about long filler would be well over that line. That's different than saying these are great smokes made with high quality tobacco, which is of course subjective.

[TCBSmokes]

Well, on the one hand, they are not one of his advertisers and I'd be more impressed if he conducted the same experiment on one of their offerings. But on the other, I did see a video where he dismantled a Padron on the rumor some were filled with stems and he did prove it to be the case with that stick.

But I guess in the end, let's face it, we Are smoking leaves and the bottom line is a natural product is going to have some imperfections, or else it wouldn't be natural. It would be an orange. Which really isn't so orange, is it?

[SeaGarr]

Well I am sure I will not be popular for stating this but... when they sell the cigar thusly: "Sink your teeth into this massively discounted blowout on premium Dominican handmades." Would that not imply it's a long filler cigar?

I mean everyone keeps saying that no where does it say it's a long filler... but then, there is no where that it says it isn't either. And by nature, you would expect a "handmade premium" cigar to be a long filler.

Let's take their Padron verbiage: "Get ready to celebrate with the Padron 1964 Series.

This limited production selection serves up a complex flavor profile consisting of coffee bean, cocoa, earth, and hazelnut. Uber-smooth and complex, each cigar is box-pressed in true Cuban tradition and aged four years, resulting in a 95-rated masterpiece. The draw: perfect. The construction: flawless. And it's available in your choice of a sun-grown natural or a dark maduro wrapper. Originally crafted to commemorate Padron's 30th anniversary, this enticing blend is sure to stir up a celebration of your very own."

Nothing there about it being a long filler either. I guess that's because were we are lead to assume that a premium cigar is a long filler.


Buyer beware isn't a model you build business on. That's why no one trusts... well you name the profession. But I will say it killed the sport of boxing. This kind of thing is bad for our hobby period.

I have no axe with CI. And I have no idea if Bryan Glen is full of it or not. But if I found that - even at $2.00, I would be some kind of upset. Moreover, I wouldn't want to lend my name to the person pushing that either.


That's my take. I have no idea if it's true or not. I sure hope not.

[Demuths1770]

Well I am sure I will not be popular for stating this but... when they sell the cigar thusly: "Sink your teeth into this massively discounted blowout on premium Dominican handmades." Would that not imply it's a long filler cigar?

I mean everyone keeps saying that no where does it say it's a long filler... but then, there is no where that it says it isn't either. And by nature, you would expect a "handmade premium" cigar to be a long filler.

Let's take their Padron verbiage: "Get ready to celebrate with the Padron 1964 Series.

This limited production selection serves up a complex flavor profile consisting of coffee bean, cocoa, earth, and hazelnut. Uber-smooth and complex, each cigar is box-pressed in true Cuban tradition and aged four years, resulting in a 95-rated masterpiece. The draw: perfect. The construction: flawless. And it's available in your choice of a sun-grown natural or a dark maduro wrapper. Originally crafted to commemorate Padron's 30th anniversary, this enticing blend is sure to stir up a celebration of your very own."

Nothing there about it being a long filler either. I guess that's because were we are lead to assume that a premium cigar is a long filler.

Buyer beware isn't a model you build business on. That's why no one trusts... well you name the profession. But I will say it killed the sport of boxing. This kind of thing is bad for our hobby period.

I have no axe with CI. And I have no idea if Bryan Glen is full of it or not. But if I found that - even at $2.00, I would be some kind of upset. Moreover, I wouldn't want to lend my name to the person pushing that either.


That's my take. I have no idea if it's true or not. I sure hope not.

The liga papas fritas is not a long filler but is still hand made. Hand made means what it says... A machine did not make it its hand made. Has nothing to do with the filler inside.

[Demuths1770]

I for 1 find it wrong that he is 1. Faulting them for calling it a short filler. 2. Calling it a fake.... When I hear fake cigar I think fake cuban. How can it be fake with the wording the have. 3. Accusing cigars international of this when other sites sell them. 4. The language he uses towards a company that has done nothing wrong

[RogueBallBoy]

He calls them out for being dishonest by omission and he is clearly being dishonest by omission himself In my view. I've seen ateast one other video of him attacking them as well. why isn't he mentioning BCP? They market stuff the exact same way. Makes me think he just has an agenda.

[SeaGarr]

The liga papas fritas is not a long filler but is still hand made. Hand made means what it says... A machine did not make it its hand made. Has nothing to do with the filler inside.

No - I get it and i'll give you that, however there is mention of it in the verbiage at CI:

"Papas Fritas - El Jefe's favorite snack food, french fries! Made from the scraps of the Liga Privada line, these may be the best mixed-filler cigars in town. Big-time flavor comes packed in a 4.5" x 44 frame. And dare I say, these guys are just as good if not better than their larger brethren. Medium to full in body, complex, and downright de-lish, these little firecrackers are super-legit."


It's more about what isn't said than what is said... and implied.


In case you think I am on a CI kick - note Famous smokes verbiage:

"Liga Privada Único Serie cigars are a unique addition to Drew Estate's highly-acclaimed Liga Privada series. All of the cigars in this series are not only different in size and recipe, but they extremely limited and exceptionally delicious. Blended with 3 select Nicaraguan Cuban seed longfillers, a Connecticut River Valley stalk cut & cured Habano binder, and a Brazilian Mata Fina wrapper. The smoke is medium to full in body and marvelously complex. Order these stunning new cigars now."


Maybe what I have been led to believe the term longfiller to mean is incorrect?

[HIM]

Well, on the one hand, they are not one of his advertisers and I'd be more impressed if he conducted the same experiment on one of their offerings. But on the other, I did see a video where he dismantled a Padron on the rumor some were filled with stems and he did prove it to be the case with that stick.

I wanted to point out that while leaf is frog legged part of the mid rib is left in the leaf to help give structure to the cigar. All cigars have stems in them. He could have saved the cigar and just looked up any video on youtube of people rolling cigars and watched the way they bunch the leaf.
I don't see why he's making such a fuss over a cigar that costs as much as a Dutch Master. My Big Mac doesn't look like the one in the commercials does either, is this really a surprise?

[Ropey]

I'm no fan of how the major internet retailers advertise their wares, so I appreciate vids like this.

Much of their advertising puffery borders on false claims IMHO and if cigar retailers didn't fall into some almost-FDA federal limbo area I think the FTC would have fined them a long time ago.

At the VERY least they're guilty of a lack of full disclosure, and more likely material misrepresentation of many of their products.

[Branzig]

My Big Mac doesn't look like the one in the commercials does either, is this really a surprise?

Great analogy. It's even better when you consider the fact that the Big Mac probably doesn't have hamburger in it either haha :p

Anyway, coming from this guy, I don't care. But man, what a great way to get hiw views up and nab a couple more subscribers!

(that's the business Brian is in)

[Marc L]

Good pointing out Cole that in Bryan's, (what seems to be), misinterpreted reference, he creates the misrepresentation. ok, maybe that's not your point but, being a cigar roller you'll know that even a long filled stick has some other in it. He does not believe that. Even after his Padron de-construction and having Jorge Padon Jr. say so.

youtube he said "The definition of Long filler is 100% whole leaves (that can be torn for placement. If it is partial long and partial short, that is called mixed."

I just don't know where he got info on that stick. it is not a long filler. and premium has yet to be defined. .. well maybe for the FDA at least. I'm not sure if a Lieberman is a machine yet?

to me 100% whole leaves means not homogenized or reconstituted.

[thechasm442]

I kind of feel like, who cares? I prefer to smoke good cigars and I feel like most of you are in the same boat. So what if a $1-$2 cigar isn't exactly what you thought. Yea it sounded good and ended up being scraps from the ground. Maybe next time grab a Tat, AJ, AF, or something else that isn't a shot in the dark.

Maybe I'm being close minded, but it's late, I can't sleep, and I don't care :cool:

[Tman]

I would've thought he might enjoy the "metallic zing" and rich "long finish" from all those short fillers. :devilish:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S13a1ILHjts

[Ropey]

I kind of feel like, who cares? I prefer to smoke good cigars
The problem is that noobs will think they're buying premium cigars at a discount, will smoke them, dislike them, and swear off cigars forever. Then there will be one more person (or thousands, if it happens a lot) who doesn't care at all when cigars are legislated out of existence.

I know because I was one of those noobs. I smoked several dog rockets from Cbid and hated them until I happened to win an auction of decent sticks.

Based on a recent video on Glynn's web site, even the "Black Pearl" cigars appear to be cuban sandwich (or nearly cuban sandwich) construction.

Here's their ad copy from http://www.cigarsinternational.com/cigars/11543/la-perla-habana-black-pearl-rojo/

"La Perla Habana Rojo received an outstanding 90-point rating along with "Best Buy" honors"

Here's a dissection of the cigar:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pmiTpPU4GE

I don't know if that's cuban sandwich or just a bunch of sh*tty tobacco and dust. Either way, does that look like a 90-rated cigar inside?

[Browns7213]

Maybe he has a vendetta against them because they wouldn't give him free cigars so he could buy his motorcycle. :stogie:

[Tman]

Short filler cigars doesn't mean anything. I'd take Tatuaje P series (short filler cigar) over tons of crap that General Cigars pump out any day.

[thechasm442]

I dunno about n00bs being led on. Myself, I spent more time researching than smoking early on. Macanudo, Carlos Torano, and La Perla Habana were pretty much the lowest quality brands I smoked from the beginning. I've never had a victor sinclair, bahia, or any of the cigars in CI low end samplers. It's not that I want to automatically disregard them, it's just that based on research I started with better smokes, and wanted to continue on that way. I feel like knowingly smoking a shit cigar is a waste of time, so why even try?

[Ropey]

I'd really hate for any vendor to come in here and see what appears to be MORE vendor bashing
Looks like plenty of other guys here feel the same fear about upsetting vendors for some reason. Guess I'm the one person who appreciates full disclosure of the truth. I don't particularly care whether vendors come to this site or give money to the owners of the site or deals to the users here. I mean, if this site just ends up coming down to money then we might as well go back to puff. At least there it was obvious.

I'd much rather retailers give complete information about products to consumers, rather than expecting people to spend weeks, months and years researching cigars so they don't get ripped off.

And if guys like Bryan Glynn are doing it, then more power to 'em. The ad hominem attacks against him are quite revealing. I've always found that when someone makes a personal attack against someone rather than addressing the issue he's raised, it reveals the attacker as someone who's on the losing side of an argument. Every damn time. Anyway, that's all I got to say on the topic.

[jp1979]

Looks like plenty of other guys here feel the same fear about upsetting vendors for some reason. Guess I'm the one person who appreciates full disclosure of the truth. I don't particularly care whether vendors come to this site or give money to the owners of the site or deals to the users here. I mean, if this site just ends up coming down to money then we might as well go back to puff. At least there it was obvious.

I'd much rather retailers give complete information about products to consumers, rather than expecting people to spend weeks, months and years researching cigars so they don't get ripped off.

And if guys like Bryan Glynn are doing it, then more power to 'em. The ad hominem attacks against him are quite revealing. I've always found that when someone makes a personal attack against someone rather than addressing the issue he's raised, it reveals the attacker as someone who's on the losing side of an argument. Every damn time. Anyway, that's all I got to say on the topic.

Dude, 90% of things you buy are advertised this way. Hooray for Brian he cut open a dog rocket and discovered it's actually still a dog rocket. He's my hero. If this video saved you from researching this $1.60 stick for months before buying it, awesome. His choice of words and title is poor and he's exaggerating the description of the cigar to bash CI. Like them or not pushing the envelope of slander by accusing them of selling fake crappy cigars is stupid.

As far as vendors go, it's nice to see vendors in here posting sales, discounts and having them participate in the forum which is a much different scenario than what your comment implies.

[Horseshoe]

I have a few issues here.

1. I see no mention in CI description that it is a long filler.
2. The idea that we are bashing CI, as they aren't the ones "making" the stick. If there is an issue it should be directed towards the manufacture not retailer. (My opinion.)
3. I doubt CI checks every stick that comes in. If it is boxed and packaged and sent over, how are they supposed to check all inventory to make sure they are perfect? Cut them all open to make sure?
4. It is a cheap stick, and how can one expect perfection on a cheap stick? You get what you pay for comes to mind.
5. Descriptions are all deceptive. I have bought countless sticks based upon description and ratings, but to me you take them all with a grain of salt. Just because someone said it was a premium stick doesn't make it a premium stick.
6. My opinions mean absolutely nothing because I don't really care. I don't know the guy who reviewed this stick and I don't know if he is honest. For all I know, he could have swapped out the band himself. I am not taking sides as I don't have a pony in this race.
7. I just wanted to have a 7th because I can. Oh, and everything you read/watch on the Internet is TRUE! I have a pet unicorn that eats 7 leaf clover and only 7 leaf clover.

[garublador]

My Big Mac doesn't look like the one in the commercials does either, is this really a surprise?I'm a bit on the fence on this one. I totally agree that it's in the same ballpark as the McDonald's (and a vast majority of all restaurants) example, but I also think that we don't hold marketing to a high enough standard. While it isn't surprising, I don't think it's right. Either way, it probably isn't a huge deal and it won't affect how I purchase cigars in the least. It's also a consumer's duty to be informed.


The problem is that noobs will think they're buying premium cigars at a discount, will smoke them, dislike them, and swear off cigars forever. Then there will be one more person (or thousands, if it happens a lot) who doesn't care at all when cigars are legislated out of existence.I suspect that doesn't happen all that much. It isn't really in anyone's best interest. What's the point in losing customers over minimal revenue?

Mostly I just like the irony that the guy in the video is critical of someone being misleading in their advertising, but then gave his video a misleading title.

[Demuths1770]

i look at it this way.... its a 1.60 a stick...... i bought a charger for my cell phone last week for a dollar and it stopped working this week. am i gonna complain?? no it was a 1$ i didnt expect much. when you see cigar prices going from 5 on the low end for a good stick to the 8-10 dollar average range why would you think a 1.60 stick is going to compare to a liga 9 at the 12 dollar range. to me its common sense. at a 1.60 its a good all day cigar not something you get to enjoy on you day off. with cigars when something is only sold in boxes or bundles there is a reason... its a cheap everyday yard gar

[wabashcr]

There's definitely something curious going on with the Los Blancos Premiere Selection.

On one hand, you have Katman doing his usual flavor bomb, going on and on about banana, berry and black cherry flavors. Said it's a $6 stick (this was in April 2014).

http://kohnhed.com/2014/04/09/blanco-cigars-premiere-selection-maduro-cigar-review/

Then on the other hand, you have CI selling the (presumably) exact same cigar (Maduro torped) on sale for $39.21 for a box of 24. That's marked down from $156, BTW. That's some Gurkha savings. I also couldn't find the premiere selection available from other distributors like Famous, JR or Thompson. Blanco themselves have a few sizes available on their website (not the torpedo) for $5-6 range (only available by the bundle/box).

http://www.cigarsinternational.com/cigars/81225/los-blancos-premiere-selection-maduro/

I'm not sure that this proves anything. While I enjoy Katman's reviews, he definitely likes a lot of crap cigars I wouldn't touch. But somewhere in the last year this seems to have gone from a decent $5-6 dollar smoke to a $1-2 short filler shit missile. I'm not a BG/CO fan, but I do think it's helpful in this case for someone who might have seen Katman's review and the cheap price on CI.

[Slick]

There's definitely something curious going on with the Los Blancos Premiere Selection.

On one hand, you have Katman doing his usual flavor bomb, going on and on about banana, berry and black cherry flavors. Said it's a $6 stick (this was in April 2014).

http://kohnhed.com/2014/04/09/blanco-cigars-premiere-selection-maduro-cigar-review/

Then on the other hand, you have CI selling the (presumably) exact same cigar (Maduro torped) on sale for $39.21 for a box of 24. That's marked down from $156, BTW. That's some Gurkha savings. I also couldn't find the premiere selection available from other distributors like Famous, JR or Thompson. Blanco themselves have a few sizes available on their website (not the torpedo) for $5-6 range (only available by the bundle/box).

http://www.cigarsinternational.com/cigars/81225/los-blancos-premiere-selection-maduro/

I'm not sure that this proves anything. While I enjoy Katman's reviews, he definitely likes a lot of crap cigars I wouldn't touch. But somewhere in the last year this seems to have gone from a decent $5-6 dollar smoke to a $1-2 short filler shit missile. I'm not a BG/CO fan, but I do think it's helpful in this case for someone who might have seen Katman's review and the cheap price on CI.

Over the years there have been many cigars that when new were priced in the 150 a box range. After they did not sell they were reduced to your 39 buck a box. There will be more.

[Trish_at_CBid]

Hey All!

While I have the geniuses upstairs who write all this stuff reviewing this thread, I will comment on a few things. I've read through all of it and first off want to thank those of you who know and trust CI for your support.

When you get to be the big gorilla of any industry, people will dislike you just because you're the big gorilla.

To the guy who was all about 'truth in advertising' let me tell you a story....

Remember when the aged/distressed look was in - about 3 or so years ago? We had these ball caps that were made to look distressed. We called the 'Tattered Hats' and sold them with that name. Well, I can't tell you how many people called us to complain that we'd sent them used caps because they had rips in them - dozens and dozens of calls! They were called TATTERED HATS for goodness sake! ALL of the pictures showed them with the little rips in the construction and STILL people didn't realized what they were purchasing/getting. What I'm getting at here is that "Truth in Advertising" isn't the end-all/be-all that you might think. Even when you're 100% honest, some folks will be unhappy.

Getting to this cigar, I have to admit I don't know much about it. I do see that its sell for less than $2/stick which in my mind says that it will be either mixed filler or made from low-quality long filler. That may be just my industry knowledge but I also know that if I'm purchasing something that sold for 125% more last year than its selling for this year (cigars, cookware, clothing, books, etc.) that tells me that they couldn't sell it for that original price or made too many and the demand has tailed off.

As you know, with any natural product be it grapes for wine, tobacco for cigars or even things like oranges and apples, the climate and weather affect it each growing year. So while a product may be outstanding one year, the next year its not quite the same - even if you use the exact same ingredients from the exact same growing area. Getting back to cigars, the manufacturers know that and they know that the next production, the taste won't be the same. So they sell the name to one of the big players in the industry. That player now has an exclusive but its not the same, even while it is the same. Make sense?

All cigar rollers add bits of tobacco to fill out the cigar. This happens even with long filler. They'll put a little bit at the cap so the rounded to is smooth. That doesn't make it less quality but it does make it look prettier.

If I find out any specifics with this particular cigar, I'll let you know.

[Emperor Zurg]

I really don't get the premise of that video. Imbecile buys a < $2 dog rocket and is *SHOCKED* when he cuts it open and finds out it's a constructed like a < $2 dog rocket. NO mention on what it tasted like or how it smoked BTW (as I'd dare venture a guess that a Padron would taste the same whether it was smoked as-is or whether you took it apart, shredded the filler and reassembled it - were that possible). Now if he tore apart a $10 or $30, big name cigar and found the same, I guess I'd be on the bandwagon with him but right now all I can think is "hey idiot, ever hear of YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR??"

[HIM]

I don't particularly care whether vendors come to this site or give money to the owners of the site or deals to the users here.

Why wouldn't you want vendors on board with the forum and offering deals to the members thats a great thing for everyone?

Off topic but... Is your avatar really a picture of Che Guevara?

[theHammer56]

You can view what CO posted just yesterday as their expose' on La Perla Habana Rojo Black Pearl. All I can say is - it appears CO had their minds made up to pronounce the patient dead even before they began the operation. Do you remember years ago when 20/20 or some show like them "exposed" how a rear-end collision made a particular car explode - only to find out that the show had rigged the "bad" vehicle with an explosive device to make certain of the outcome? Well - that's what I thought of after seeing CO's "expose'" of this cigar. It was so crispy sounding that I had to wonder if it was still warm after coming out of the oven! It certainly appears like a full-blown hatchet job on a 90-rated cigar, which then was translated into taking a shot at the vendor from whom it was purchased!?! Wha...???

If there's a "buyer beware" moral to the story - in this case it appears to be: Beware of bafoons posing as experts on YouTube!!!

Here's CO's dissection of this (rigged - IMHO) cigar:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pmiTpPU4GE

[jhedrick83]

I clicked on your link, looks like he has moved/removed the video.

[wabashcr]

Over the years there have been many cigars that when new were priced in the 150 a box range. After they did not sell they were reduced to your 39 buck a box. There will be more.

I agree, although even though these didn't sell well, I'd still be surprised that they were short filler when they were offered for $6 each. I'm not accusing CI of foul play, but I'm also not ruling out the possibility that CI bought the right to this label and turned it into something completely different. We know CI does buy brands, and that the end product can change. Whether it's because, as Trish alluded to, there's just not consistency year to year in the growing and manufacturing processes, or something more sinister, I'm not sure.

I have no axe to grind with CI, as they've generally been good to me. If they are buying brands and making changes to those brands, all unannounced, to me that crosses a line. Again, I'm not accusing them of doing that, just saying that's one possibility based on the evidence available.

[theHammer56]

LOL jhedrick83! It HAS been removed. THAT didn't take long. I was only the 2nd commenter - and the 1st commenter wasn't too kind, either. Basically called them out the same way I did.

When you're caught - you're caught. I bet they're glad they have the option of getting rid of they're own damning evidence. hehe...

[04EDGE40]

Why wouldn't you want vendors on board with the forum and offering deals to the members thats a great thing for everyone?

Off topic but... Is your avatar really a picture of Che Guevara?

It would appear so...

[BrianWilliams]

For my comeback on the Nightly News I will be doing an in-depth deconstruction of these cigars for the American consumer to see. For $1.60 I demand the quality of a $10 cigar!

[Sticky B]

It would appear so...

No, that's his twin brother from Ireland, Shea.

[Demuths1770]

LOL jhedrick83! It HAS been removed. THAT didn't take long. I was only the 2nd commenter - and the 1st commenter wasn't too kind, either. Basically called them out the same way I did.

When you're caught - you're caught. I bet they're glad they have the option of getting rid of they're own damning evidence. hehe...

gee living proof that maybey CO is not the best sorce for your up and up on cigar info

[jp1979]

gee living proof that maybey CO is not the best sorce for your up and up on cigar info

DING! DING! DING!..... Ladies and gentlemen we have a winner!

[Old Smokey]

DING! DING! DING!..... Ladies and gentlemen we have a winner!

LOL, way to burst my hymen.

[jp1979]

LOL, way to burst my hymen.

I am amazed that it was still intact! :confused:

[Old Smokey]

I am amazed that it was still intact! :confused:


I have been very gentle and tender with it. But at 61yrs old, I think it is ripe.:cool: Can you smell it?

[jp1979]

I have been very gentle and tender with it. But at 61yrs old, I think it is ripe.:cool: Can you smell it?

From 1800 miles away, no. But I do feel sorry for the people of Joplin. You sicko!

[Emperor Zurg]

I think if Bryan is really concerned with 'truth in advertising' he ought to change the name of his site from "Cigar Obsession" to "Self Obsession"

[Demuths1770]

I think if Bryan is really concerned with 'truth in advertising' he ought to change the name of his site from "Cigar Obsession" to "Self Obsession"

now that is great right there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Browns7213]

No, that's his twin brother from Ireland, Shea.

That boy cracks me up!:D

[TCBSmokes]

I wanted to point out that while leaf is frog legged part of the mid rib is left in the leaf to help give structure to the cigar. All cigars have stems in them. He could have saved the cigar and just looked up any video on youtube of people rolling cigars and watched the way they bunch the leaf.
I don't see why he's making such a fuss over a cigar that costs as much as a Dutch Master. My Big Mac doesn't look like the one in the commercials does either, is this really a surprise?

Tell that to this guy. lol. :)

https://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play;_ylt=A0LEVr5sKfZUrwkA_KQlnIlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTB0b2 ZrZmU3BHNlYwNzYwRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkA1lIUzAwMl8x?p=m ichael+douglas+des+fens+breakfast+scene&tnr=21&vid=ABD9349AFAB802662225ABD9349AFAB802662225&l=271&turl=http%3A%2F%2Fts3.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DUN.6 07994522942046646%26pid%3D15.1&sigi=11rhn4vh3&rurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D-eREiQhBDIk&sigr=11bb03uef&tt=b&tit=Falling+Down+-+I+want+breakfast&sigt=10vk8de5m&back=https%3A%2F%2Fsearch.yahoo.com%2Fyhs%2Fsearch %3Fp%3Dmichael%2Bdouglas%2Bdes%2Bfens%2Bbreakfast% 2Bscene%26ei%3DUTF-8%26hsimp%3Dyhs-004%26hspart%3Dmozilla&sigb=13k1fmuqh&hspart=mozilla&hsimp=yhs-004

[droy1958]

Whew....that was a long thread. Let's smoke.....

[DogRockets]

Wow the video has been pulled - wonder what made him pull it down? Enough people telling him he's full of crap or CI's legal department laying some smack down.

[droy1958]

Wow the video has been pulled - wonder what made him pull it down? Enough people telling him he's full of crap or CI's legal department laying some smack down.

Probably lawyers were involved...

[wabashcr]

Wow the video has been pulled - wonder what made him pull it down? Enough people telling him he's full of crap or CI's legal department laying some smack down.

My guess is the former. If I posted a video dissecting a cigar I got from CI and they tried to tell me to take it down, I'd tell them to piss up a rope. I think it's becoming evident that some of these people cutting open these cigars don't know what they're doing. I saw the video before it was taken down. It didn't look good, but it was mostly long filler. A lot of the smaller pieces looked like long filler broken up either during rolling or cutting it open.

[Skeat5353]

The story is all over other forums too. CI's legal department has threatened to sue Brian at Cigar Obsession, thus he was forced to remove the videos. It makes a lot of sense, though. How cigar smokers can really distinguish the difference between long and short filler in a cheap cigar, that's what they're banking on. I cut open an Excalibur and a Sosa months ago, just to see what type of tobacco they were using. Honestly, it looked like leaves you might find on a sidewalk in autumn. Hard brittle stems, choppy scraps of crap. Awful shit, really. Looks like they took a page of Habanos counterfeiters!!! LOL!

[jp1979]

i bet it was the title that got the attention of the legal department. i had a feeling they might not like that... pretty funny really.

[Marc L]

Maybe some more consideration for facts expressed could get had?

[Skeat5353]

This is the same Bryan Glynn who reviewed a fake Monte 2 and didn't realize it until a viewer sent in an email saying the band looked fake and the wrapper looked terrible. Maybe he's trying to get even. He also discovered a bunch of hard stems in Padron filler too. I like the fact that he opens up the cigars. Someone has to protect us, right?

[garublador]

My Big Mac doesn't look like the one in the commercials does either, is this really a surprise?I couldn't not post this. It's from The Onion, so there's NSFW words on the site, but the story itself is fine.


GREENVILLE, SC—Expressing his disappointment shortly after sitting down for lunch at a local franchise location Wednesday, area man Peter Strauss told reporters that the customers at Burger King were actually far less appealing in real life than they were depicted in the fast food chain’s commercials. “The Burger King customers looked so good on TV, but when I got here they turned out to be kind of gross,” said Strauss, emphasizing that the sloppy, greasy customers at his local Burger King were considerably less photogenic and enticing than the patrons prominently featured in company advertisements. “They actually look pretty messy and sort of disgusting in person, and you can tell they’ve just been sitting out here all day. I guess there’s a reason they don’t show you these ones in the ads. Ugh.” Strauss added that he tends to stay away from fast food customers in the first place, as he can tell that they’re not very healthy.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/fast-food-customers-less-appealing-than-in-commerc,38142/

[Demuths1770]

This is the same Bryan Glynn who reviewed a fake Monte 2 and didn't realize it until a viewer sent in an email saying the band looked fake and the wrapper looked terrible. Maybe he's trying to get even. He also discovered a bunch of hard stems in Padron filler too. I like the fact that he opens up the cigars. Someone has to protect us, right?

padron also got back to him after doing that and stated that is normal. these are natural products being rolled by people. natural defects and human error are to be expected at some point. the fact that he is claiming these to be fake and the nature of him doing so is wrong which is probably why they got on him. also the same Bryan Glynn that said its ok to take Heartfelt beads and soak them in tap water lol

[wabashcr]

i bet it was the title that got the attention of the legal department. i had a feeling they might not like that... pretty funny really.

I agree, saying they are fake was pretty silly. Big difference between fake and just shitty. He obviously has his own interests he wants to protect, and probably decided a pissing match with CI wasn't good for that. Regardless of how we feel about him, he has a good thing going. No reason to rock the boat. Probably should have thought about that before dropping those videos.

[BMack]

It's pretty weird to watch this from the outside on multiple forums, with no biased/opinion of what's going on...seems like each forum has their own side and are defending it like their religion.

[Browns7213]

Trish_@_CBID did you really sick your legal department on Bryan Glynn? I think I speak for everyone here when I say "THANK YOU"!:)

[Demuths1770]

Trish_@_CBID did you really sick your legal department on Bryan Glynn? I think I speak for everyone here when I say "THANK YOU"!:)

you speak for me when you say thank you lol. i thought it was a completly childish video from the accusations to the language and attacks at a company.

[jhedrick83]

Trish_@_CBID did you really sick your legal department on Bryan Glynn? I think I speak for everyone here when I say "THANK YOU"!:)

You speak for me too. I'm not going to get into bashing him too much and tread jack, but he strikes me as a arrogant clown.

[Ropey]

Actually if Cigars International threatened to sue Byran Glynn and he backed down, then that makes both parties look terrible.

First off, CI has the shadiest marketing and advertising practices I've ever seen on the internet, with perhaps the exception of some eBay merchants from Hong Kong. For example, calling cigars "90 Rated Masterpieces!!" when in reality the cigar merely uses the same band as a cigar that was rated 90 a decade ago, strikes me as outrageous (and likely illegal). Implying that the Greycliff cigars you see on Cbid are rolled in the Bahamas. Etc etc etc. I could go on and on.

If I were Glynn, and CI threatened to sue me, I'd gladly let them, and then use the discovery process to gather information about their marketing practices and ship it all to the feds. Then I'd hit 'em with an anti-SLAPP countersuit and collect legal fees. Might even turn it into a class-action and then retire. But then I'm an attorney, not a lot of people have the stomach for that.

Anyway, the point is that Glynn was either wrong or he's a pansy. And Cigars International was either unfairly accused or it's a morally degenerate bully. I'd like to know which, and the fact that nobody will talk about it makes me believe they're all corrupt.

[Emperor Zurg]

"You seem to have more than the average share of intelligence for a man of your background," sneered the lawyer at a witness on the stand.
"If I wasn't under oath, I'd return the compliment," replied the witness.

God decided to take the devil to court and settle their differences once and for all.
When Satan heard this, he laughed and said, "And where do you think you're going to find a lawyer?"

A man walks into a friend and sees that his friend's car is total loss and covered with leaves, grass, branches, dirt and blood. He asks his friend, "What's happened to your car?" "Well," the friend responds, "I ran into a lawyer." "OK," says the man, "that explains the blood... But what about the leaves, the grass, the branches and the dirt?" "Well, I had to chase him all through the park."

http://www.lumixfreunde.de/lumixfreunde/images/smiley/smiley_rofl.gif

[Ropey]

^^^^ until you need one, my friend, until you need one ;)

[stonecutter2]

This is the same Bryan Glynn who reviewed a fake Monte 2 and didn't realize it until a viewer sent in an email saying the band looked fake and the wrapper looked terrible. Maybe he's trying to get even. He also discovered a bunch of hard stems in Padron filler too. I like the fact that he opens up the cigars. Someone has to protect us, right?

I had a large hard stem inside of a Padron 64 Anniversary. Emailed Padron a couple times but never even got a response. I smoked it, and it was delicious. I hope the next one I smoke has a big ol' stem in it too :D

[stonecutter2]

^^^^ until you need one, my friend, until you need one ;)

Truth.

[wabashcr]

Anyway, the point is that Glynn was either wrong or he's a pansy. And Cigars International was either unfairly accused or it's a morally degenerate bully. I'd like to know which, and the fact that nobody will talk about it makes me believe they're all corrupt.

I think all of these scenarios have some truth to them. On one hand, BG was wrong about calling the products "fakes," and I wouldn't blame CI for feeling aggrieved. But as you said, CI has some questionable marketing practices, and while I don't agree with how he went about it, BG's actions did serve to highlight some of those practices. I think there's legitimate beef with CI here, and anyone who has purchased from them has the right to air that grievance publicly.

But you have to remember BG has this CO enterprise, where people around the world send him free cigars, and he does what he does. Many of us may think he's a clown, but to a specific subset of the cigar community, he has a good reputation. He also has business outside the cigar industry. I could see where he may not want this fight with CI, in deference to his other interests. Does that make him a pansy? Well, probably. I'm not saying I agree with him, but I understand.

[Emperor Zurg]

^^^^ until you need one, my friend, until you need one ;)

Oh I am aware... trust me on that. Unfortunately 'the law' is more corrupt than the lawyers could hope to be. Talk about an old boy's club! My go-to attorney retired and the guy who took his place is a crook. Does nothing and charges $500 for saying 'Hi'. He's one I'd chase thru the park.

[Billb1960]

^^^^ until you need one, my friend, until you need one ;)

Ah but in all truth the reason we need lawyers is that they wrote the laws...

[Skeat5353]

Actually if Cigars International threatened to sue Byran Glynn and he backed down, then that makes both parties look terrible.

First off, CI has the shadiest marketing and advertising practices I've ever seen on the internet, with perhaps the exception of some eBay merchants from Hong Kong. For example, calling cigars "90 Rated Masterpieces!!" when in reality the cigar merely uses the same band as a cigar that was rated 90 a decade ago, strikes me as outrageous (and likely illegal). Implying that the Greycliff cigars you see on Cbid are rolled in the Bahamas. Etc etc etc. I could go on and on.

If I were Glynn, and CI threatened to sue me, I'd gladly let them, and then use the discovery process to gather information about their marketing practices and ship it all to the feds. Then I'd hit 'em with an anti-SLAPP countersuit and collect legal fees. Might even turn it into a class-action and then retire. But then I'm an attorney, not a lot of people have the stomach for that.

Anyway, the point is that Glynn was either wrong or he's a pansy. And Cigars International was either unfairly accused or it's a morally degenerate bully. I'd like to know which, and the fact that nobody will talk about it makes me believe they're all corrupt.

Amen!!! I'm like you. It's not that I like lawsuits over the tiniest infractions, but I love justice with all my heart and soul, just because there is so much injustice in the world. So if CI is a scam that practices fraudulent marketing strategies, and Glynn has a half decent attorney, he should go after them. It's worth a try. Just because CI is some big online retailer with deep pockets, they can bully some little dope on Youtube who opened up a cigar they sold to him, shut him down, humiliate him, shame him and, for all intents and purposes, utterly undermine his credibility; that doesn't seem right at all.

I'm not a big fan of petty litigation. If some dipshit rearends me at 35 MPH and my neck and back are a little sore, I'll shake it off. I literally love-tapped a guy in a parking lot once. No damage to either car. Gave him my information. A week later I get a call from an attorney, telling me I'm liable for injuries. The guy all of a sudden developed a herniated disk (yeah right) and I needed to pay for it.

But I think in this case, Ropey, you are correct. I'm so tired of the big guy bullying the little guy in this country. America, at one time, was all about the success of the little guy. Now these big corporations with their Ivy-league legal teams are pushing everyone into the same corner. Where's Uncle Joe who owned Uncle Joe's Hardware store on Main St.? He's working for $8 an hour at Home Depot because he didn't have the power to fight back. And before you know it, Uncle Joe's gonna be eating spicy Won Ton soup in Beijing because he can't find work in his own country at a decent, livable wage.

Okay, done extrapolating here. Bryan Glynn, if you have half a brain and half a pair, go after these scum and take them down. Expose them for what they are: a fraudulent organization that peddles garbage for the same price as gold. But I really like the class-action idea. Brilliant. I've ordered from them. Where can I sign?

[Cardinal]

Actually if Cigars International threatened to sue Byran Glynn and he backed down, then that makes both parties look terrible.
<snip>
Anyway, the point is that Glynn was either wrong or he's a pansy. And Cigars International was either unfairly accused or it's a morally degenerate bully. I'd like to know which, and the fact that nobody will talk about it makes me believe they're all corrupt.

I don't see how CI looks terrible here. If they're unfairly accused, then they're not a morally degenerate bully. If they're fairly accused, maybe Glynn would stand up to them. Either way, at best CI looks fine, and at worst we don't know anything more than we knew last week.

As far as everyone wanting to sue the retailer, what? Did CI manufacture the product? I doubt they dissect anything, let alone samples of everything they sell. If Glynn had gotten that infamous stem-filled Padron from CI, should CI be sued for that too? I don't see how anyone is so damaged by this episode that anyone needs to go to court for a few years and a couple hundred thousand bucks. I know everyone wants to take shots at the big guy and win the lottery (thus, in this case, driving up cigar prices for the rest of us by the way), but come on. We're talking about a $1.50 cigar, not an exploding vehicle gas tank.

[Skeat5353]

I don't see how CI looks terrible here. If they're unfairly accused, then they're not a morally degenerate bully. If they're fairly accused, maybe Glynn would stand up to them. Either way, at best CI looks fine, and at worst we don't know anything more than we knew last week.

As far as everyone wanting to sue the retailer, what? Did CI manufacture the product? I doubt they dissect anything, let alone samples of everything they sell. If Glynn had gotten that infamous stem-filled Padron from CI, should CI be sued for that too? I don't see how anyone is so damaged by this episode that anyone needs to go to court for a few years and a couple hundred thousand bucks. I know everyone wants to take shots at the big guy and win the lottery (thus, in this case, driving up cigar prices for the rest of us by the way), but come on. We're talking about a $1.50 cigar, not an exploding vehicle gas tank.

I guess you are right. A prolonged legal battle over $1.20 cigar is silly. However, I think that CI forcing him to remove the video with legal repercussions is wrong. I try always to support the small guy. I buy local, I buy from smaller online retailers. I like to support small businesses. Sure you pay a little more, but to me that's just an investment in a healthy local economic climate.

I like to still believe this is a free country. If a 'self-obsessed' dope like Bryan Glynn (nod to Emperor Zurg! LOL) wants to show his viewers a cigar that was marketed as 'premium' but turned out to be scraps from the rolling room floor, he should have that right. If I'm paying $2 for a cigar, when really it should cost 50 cents and when it's being marketed as 'premium' (which implies a cigar of $8-10 value), so that I am fooled into believing I'm getting an $8 cigar for $2 and I should really only be paying 50 cents for it, well then I have been deceived by the company selling it. Period.

If I want to then make a Youtube video exposing the marketing scam, I should have the right to do so, so long as my claims are not libelous or false. If CI did indeed sell a $2 cigar under the guise that it was 'premium' (thus implying a higher value than what it's currently retailing for) and if it was indeed not 'premium', then I should have the right to expose the marketing scam to people. It follows along the same lines as "THE LEMON LAWS" now in place in most states to protect suckers like me from getting swindled and fleeced by sleezy carsalesmen.

But I remember when I first started out. I opened up all the catalogs in the mail and read about this brand and that brand. In an attempt to save money and at the same time pursue a cigar hobby, I just figured a 'premium' was a 'premium.' Why spend $8 for a 'premium' cigar, when I could just as easily spend $2 and get the same product. A good friend of mine likes to say, "You don't know a good cigar until you've had a bad one." So here I am buying awful cigars that taste like crap and thinking all along they're 'premium.' Then, finally, I splurge on a 15-dollar cigar and BOOM. You know what the first thing I said to myself was? How can that website pass off that crap as 'premium.' It's fine to sell crappy cigars for $2. But to market them as if they are the same quality as an 8-dollar cigar is, in my humble opinion, wrong.

So here's Bryan Glynn. A dope with a cigar show. Great. Wonderful. He wants to show his more inexperienced viewers that CI is selling subpar product under the title 'premium.' It's no different than a used-car salesman selling you a lemon. He told me the transmission had been replaced recently, but it crapped out after 1000 miles. Well, CI is selling me a 2-dollar 'premium' cigar that isn't 'premium' at all. In fact, it's probably only worth 50 cents. But because I don't know any better, I think I'm getting a deal. Some of those cheap cigars are so harsh and awful, it surprises me they even sell for more than 10 frickin' cents.

Anyway, Bryan Glynn--dope that he is--still has a right to say whatever he wants, so long as he is not providing false and libelous information. Was the cigar marketed as 'premium'? Yes. Was it 'premium'? No. That's where it begins and ends for CI or any other cigar retailer trying to pass off crap as 'premium.' Like Ropey alluded to, these cigar retailers fall into an unregulated grey area and, until the FDA creates standards for the industry, any and all cigars could be considered 'premium.' All the FDA would have to do is create a standard like in the meat industry: Premium has this type of tobacco, Non-premiums has that kind of tobacco, etc., etc., etc. Until that day comes, cigars smokers will be buying shite and thinking it's 'premium.'

[Sticky B]

Expose them for what they are: a fraudulent organization that peddles garbage for the same price as gold.

I'm not sure where you buy gold for $1.50, but I want IN.

[Tman]

The problem I have is that we're arguing over a $1.50 stick. Sure, CI makes outrageous description, but who in here takes that claim seriously? I think the bigger problem is the slandering of cigars that didn't need slandering. I think "unsmokable", "total crap", "floor sweeping", and top it off with "fake cigar" mentioned in the video is a bit much. Is there any merit to his mention? It's unprofessional and quite frankly upsetting when he knows he has quite a respectable cigar smoking audience in hand that takes reviews seriously. Let's not forget, having the attitude of getting something for nothing is what gets this economy in trouble in the first place. What is to be gained by doing that video? It could have been done with much more class.

[Skeat5353]

I think "unsmokable", "total crap", "floor sweeping", and top it off with "fake cigar" mentioned in the video is a bit much. Is there any merit to his mention? It's unprofessional and quite frankly upsetting when he knows he has quite a respectable cigar smoking audience in hand that takes reviews seriously.

I agree. Bryan Glynn has a wide audience. So what he says on his webcast has some influence on consumers. If he did call the cigar 'fake' because it contained short filler, then he is technically wrong on his part. Whether it is false or libelous is another question entirely. But again, Glynn is dealing in a gray area. What defines 'premium'? Has anyone ever seen cigars, cheap or otherwise, marketed as 'non-premium'? There's no such category. For Glynn to say that a cigar is 'fake' exposes him as someone who is uninformed in the tactics of marketing. CI has done nothing wrong other than sell a 'non-premium' cigar advertised as 'premium.' Fake, I don't think so. Misleading, perhaps.

Marketing a cigar as 'premium' places it in the same group of real, high-end cigars, like Davidoff, My Father, Padron, Fuente, etc. That's where the deception lies. When CI tells you a cigar made with short filler is 'premium,' it doesn't mean that cigar is 'fake' as Glynn claims. It's just 'non-premium.' I think what we're talking about here is false advertising. When I watch a Carl's Jr. commercial and there's a super-model in a bikini with huge tits eating a massive 1/4 pound hamburger loaded with fat, I don't believe it. That's just common sense kicking in. But if I go buy that product and consume it, that's on me--not on Carls Jr. The same idea applies to Budweiser commercials. There's a bunch of hot chicks sucking down bottles of beer and everyone's having a great time. But when I go to my local bar, there's only sad, fat alcoholics sucking down Budweisers.

Until the Federal Government passes laws on the way cigars are marketed, CI is well within its legal bounds to market 'non-premium' garbage in the same market with genuine 'premium' cigars. Really it's up to us, the consumer, to discriminate. Nevertheless, Bryan Glynn has every right to make a video showing people what's in a cheap cigar marketed as 'premium.' That just protects the consumers of his audience. By the same token, until laws say otherwise, CI is well within its rights to market a 'non-premium' cigar as a 'premium' one.

Like the great P.T. Barnum said, "There's a sucker born every minute."

[Tman]

I agree. We're all better by being more well informed and we can all smoke a quality cigar together!

[jp1979]

CI never sold it as a "premium cigar" its description said it was made with "premium tobacco". If you bought this cigar expecting Davidoff quality and premiumness for $1.60, you need your head examined.

[wabashcr]

I think there's a little bit of a difference between overhyping a crap cigar and buying a brand with a decent reputation, then selling crap cigars under that brand. That's what it appears, at least to me, CI is doing. We know they do that with Gurkha, and it seems like that's what happened here with at least the Los Blancos. I guess it's a fact of the industry, and they're probably not the only ones doing it. Just seems like a bait and switch, which to me is more sinister than simply referring to a shit cigar as "premium."

[jp1979]

I think there's a little bit of a difference between overhyping a crap cigar and buying a brand with a decent reputation, then selling crap cigars under that brand. That's what it appears, at least to me, CI is doing. We know they do that with Gurkha, and it seems like that's what happened here with at least the Los Blancos. I guess it's a fact of the industry, and they're probably not the only ones doing it. Just seems like a bait and switch, which to me is more sinister than simply referring to a shit cigar as "premium."

tons of things you buy are made by one company and rebranded as something else, and the descriptions for each is completely different, some touting that there product is better than the others, but in reality they are made by the same place and just have a different label on it. BIG one that comes to mind in the whole Porsche/VW/Audi thing, take some of the trim panels off of a Porsche Cheyenne (sp)and they have VW markings on the back, same parts that are made for the Toureg... Anybody going to sue Porsche because its not made with all Porsche parts? I don't think so.

Even if they bought the rights to the Los Blancos brand, I believe they were 5-6 buck sticks before CI bought them, now the are sub 2 dollars.... I would think that that would raise an eyebrow before you put it in your cart. BG doesnt like CI, now CI doesnt like BG.... is what it is.

[Skeat5353]

CI never sold it as a "premium cigar" its description said it was made with "premium tobacco". If you bought this cigar expecting Davidoff quality and premiumness for $1.60, you need your head examined.


I think there's a little bit of a difference between overhyping a crap cigar and buying a brand with a decent reputation, then selling crap cigars under that brand. That's what it appears, at least to me, CI is doing. We know they do that with Gurkha, and it seems like that's what happened here with at least the Los Blancos. I guess it's a fact of the industry, and they're probably not the only ones doing it. Just seems like a bait and switch, which to me is more sinister than simply referring to a shit cigar as "premium."

Both very good points. But the use of the word 'premium' places the cigar in a different class. If I go to the butcher and he sells me a 'Prime' cut of beef for $2 a pound, when it really should be $10 a pound, I'm excited. But if that beef I bought is really 'Select' under the guise of 'Prime', then the butcher has deceived me. If the FDA finds out of this practice, then he will be fined and lose his license. Why are the same standards not in place for cigar retailers and consumers? If I buy what is advertised as a 'premium' cigar, then it should not contain 'non-premium' tobacco. The same way the butcher can't sell me 'Select' beef under the guise of 'Prime.' There should be standards, just like in the meat industry.

When I buy a premium cigar, the band shouldn't matter. The tobacco under the wrapper is all that matters. And it should all be graded, because clearly there is a difference between the leaf used in a Padron '26 and $2 shit rocket. But there is no standard, other than the discerning palate, to place a rating on that difference. There is no way that a 2-dollar shit rocket should be branded under the same 'premium' umbrella as the Padron. But they are. To the uninformed consumer, they see 'premium' as the only standard, whether it's a high-end Tatuaje or low-end piece of garbage like the one Glynn dissected.

[Marc L]

I need a typist.

[jp1979]

Both very good points. But the use of the word 'premium' places the cigar in a different class. If I go to the butcher and he sells me a 'Prime' cut of beef for $2 a pound, when it really should be $10 a pound, I'm excited. But if that beef I bought is really 'Select' under the guise of 'Prime', then the butcher has deceived me. If the FDA finds out of this practice, then he will be fined and lose his license. Why are the same standards not in place for cigar retailers and consumers? If I buy what is advertised as a 'premium' cigar, then it should not contain 'non-premium' tobacco. The same way the butcher can't sell me 'Select' beef under the guise of 'Choice.'

*edit read it wrong* again it was not sold as a premium cigar, no where did it say that. Los Blancos Premiere is the name. it said it was made with premium tobacco, which in someones opinion it might be, in most peoples its not, im not debating the fact that the description is overly done, but so are 90% of the ones you see on ALL products, lotion, cars, food, beer, electronics, etc...

[Ropey]

tons of things you buy are made by one company and rebranded as something else [...] BIG one that comes to mind in the whole Porsche/VW/Audi thing, take some of the trim panels off of a Porsche Cheyenne (sp)and they have VW markings on the back, same parts that are made for the Toureg...
And isn't it nice to know that? Glynn was letting people know that about CI's crap sticks.


Anybody going to sue Porsche because its not made with all Porsche parts? I don't think so. Glynn wasn't threatening to sue them. He just made a video showing that the cigar was trash with a formerly decent brand's label on it.

Let's take your analogy further. Suppose nobody knew that Porsches were actually mostly VW parts. So you made a video "tak[ing] some of the trim panels off of a Porsche Cheyenne (sp)and [and showing] they have VW markings on the back." And Porsche's lawyer called you and told you to take it down or else.

Would that be fair?



Even if they bought the rights to the Los Blancos brand, I believe they were 5-6 buck sticks before CI bought them, now the are sub 2 dollars.... I would think that that would raise an eyebrow before you put it in your cart. Again, would noobs necessarily know this? Not until they watch Glynn's (former) video :)

[Skeat5353]

*edit read it wrong* again it was not sold as a premium cigar, no where did it say that. Los Blancos Premiere is the name. it said it was made with premium tobacco, which in someones opinion it might be, in most peoples its not, im not debating the fact that the description is overly done, but so are 90% of the ones you see on ALL products, lotion, cars, food, beer, electronics, etc...

Justin, I find your commentary very honest, stimulating, and sincere. I looked at the Los Blancos advertisement on CI and, yes, there is no mention of 'premium' any where on the page. But have a look at a few links here:

http://www.cigarsinternational.com/samplers/87567/montecristo-premium-cigar-assortment/#p-162826

http://www.cigarsinternational.com/cigars/66984/super-premium-2nds/

http://www.cigarsinternational.com/samplers/81077/kismet-premium-sampler-box/#p-150816

http://www.cigarsinternational.com/samplers/78193/plumpin-premiums-sampler-iv/#p-140501

By the use of the word 'premium', CI is putting these cigars under the same umbrella as real premium cigars. I'm not bashing CI. They are well within their rights to market these cigars as such. But to the uninformed and uninitiated, these cigars are 'premium.' Cut them open, and you'll know how premium they are. The tobacco of these cigars is by no means 'premium' at all--not certainly in the same class as genuine premium cigars, like Fuente, Tatuaje, Padron, Davidoff, etc. But they're marketed under this umbrella. That doesn't mean they're fake, as Glynn claimed in his stupid webcast. But they are not 'premium' in any way.

I guess we can just agree to disagree. My FDA meat grade analogy was a bit off, only because there is not the same grading system in place for tobacco, like you indicated. But my point was that there should be a 'grading' system for cigar tobacco. There's no way that retailers should be able to slap a 'premium' label on a shit rocket and sell it for 10 times its true value. If some shlub with a Youtube web channel decides to expose that, it just doesn't seem right that CI can threaten him with legal repercussions and force him to remove a video. Again, it goes back to my small guy vs. big guy analogy above.

Like Ropey was alluding to in his post, I would've stood my ground and forced CI to reveal their shady marketing practices through discovery. And then settled out of court. I would've then taken the money and bought real premium cigars from a dealer in Hong Kong or Geneva! LOL

[Skeat5353]

padron also got back to him after doing that and stated that is normal. these are natural products being rolled by people. natural defects and human error are to be expected at some point. the fact that he is claiming these to be fake and the nature of him doing so is wrong which is probably why they got on him. also the same Bryan Glynn that said its ok to take Heartfelt beads and soak them in tap water lol

Don't mistake me at all. Bryan Glynn is a goofball. What amazes me is that he's had industry professionals on his shows, master blenders, industry execs, etc. He's got 10,000+ subscribers on Youtube. I can't watch him though. He has no personality whatever. Not a joke, not a laugh, no intelligence, just a boring loser in his backyard. I don't know why people watch him in the first place. But he still has a right to make his videos without legal pressure from some giant online retailer.

[Browns7213]

CI never sold it as a "premium cigar" its description said it was made with "premium tobacco". If you bought this cigar expecting Davidoff quality and premiumness for $1.60, you need your head examined.

Hey, hey, hey! Let's not bring common sense into this argument :D

[jp1979]

And isn't it nice to know that? Glynn was letting people know that about CI's crap sticks.

Glynn wasn't threatening to sue them. He just made a video showing that the cigar was trash with a formerly decent brand's label on it.

Let's take your analogy further. Suppose nobody knew that Porsches were actually mostly VW parts. So you made a video "tak[ing] some of the trim panels off of a Porsche Cheyenne (sp)and [and showing] they have VW markings on the back." And Porsche's lawyer called you and told you to take it down or else.

Would that be fair?


Again, would noobs necessarily know this? Not until they watch Glynn's (former) video :)

1. Dude, they were crap sticks before he cut them open, and still are after. Who cares.

2. See what you did there Mr. Glynn Jr? I never said "mostly VW parts" I said "not all Porsche parts". If they had to choose between us they would probably call you first.. my point is its all over the place.

3. is some one who buys and smokes dollar cigars really going to give a shit? Do you think that the quality of that cigar is any worse than other 1 dollar cigars, I doubt it....

[Emperor Zurg]

Don't mistake me at all. Bryan Glynn is a goofball. What amazes me is that he's had industry professionals on his shows, master blenders, industry execs, etc. He's got 10,000+ subscribers on Youtube. I can't watch him though. He has no personality whatever. Not a joke, not a laugh, no intelligence, just a boring loser in his backyard. I don't know why people watch him in the first place. But he still has a right to make his videos without legal pressure from some giant online retailer.
I agree with ya, Skeat

He has every right to make his videos and post his arrogant opinions. More power to him. Hooray for Bryan (insert sarcastic clapping) He does not have the right to make things up and spread libelous accusations. "CI sells this as a long filler cigar" is just plain false. Slander and libel are illegal and kudos to CI for standing up to the jackass.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-QEl57twO5eU/TjZuyn49e9I/AAAAAAAAOgQ/DA0RRpz89ms/s200/braying%2Bjackass.jpeg

I can't believe this discussion has gone on for 11 pages...

[theHammer56]

I can't believe this discussion has gone on for 11 pages...

Yep.

[wabashcr]

tons of things you buy are made by one company and rebranded as something else, and the descriptions for each is completely different, some touting that there product is better than the others, but in reality they are made by the same place and just have a different label on it. BIG one that comes to mind in the whole Porsche/VW/Audi thing, take some of the trim panels off of a Porsche Cheyenne (sp)and they have VW markings on the back, same parts that are made for the Toureg... Anybody going to sue Porsche because its not made with all Porsche parts? I don't think so.


I know this is all about a $2 stick, and it's pointless, but the bigger picture is what interests me. So if you'll indulge me, I'd change your analogy a bit. To me it's more like Porsche has a model, say the old 928, that they no longer want to support. Sales are down, and they have moved on to other projects. But then say a dealer in the US who has several Porsche dealerships, let's call him Ashley Schaeffer, decides to buy the 928 brand/label from Porsche, decides to continue making them in Viet Nam, and sells them as Porsche 928s at his dealerships for $20k. Obviously car people in the know would be aware of what's going on, and with the internet, it would be a lot more difficult to hide that from unsuspecting buyers. But selling them as Porsche 928s, like they were actually made by Porsche, seems flat out wrong to me.

The last thing I want anyone to think is that I'm a Brian Glynn supporter. I'm not. I think he botched this from the beginning, and when it looked like it could backfire and affect his personal interests, he deleted everything and pretended like it never happened. But I still think we're left with a pretty shady and underhanded practice by CI. BG being a douche shouldn't let CI off the hook.

[Cardinal]

...let's call him Ashley Schaeffer...


Ashley Schaeffer! You nailed it.

http://i1329.photobucket.com/albums/w547/temeric79/h4IcukI_zpsxhkxu7o7.gif

[Sticky B]

There's no way that retailers should be able to slap a 'premium' label on a shit rocket and sell it for 10 times it's true value.

Are you arguing that the cigar Bryan cut apart was only really worth being sold for $0.10-0.20?

What should machine-made cigars go for?

[jp1979]

I know this is all about a $2 stick, and it's pointless, but the bigger picture is what interests me. So if you'll indulge me, I'd change your analogy a bit. To me it's more like Porsche has a model, say the old 928, that they no longer want to support. Sales are down, and they have moved on to other projects. But then say a dealer in the US who has several Porsche dealerships, let's call him Ashley Schaeffer, decides to buy the 928 brand/label from Porsche, decides to continue making them in Viet Nam, and sells them as Porsche 928s at his dealerships for $20k. Obviously car people in the know would be aware of what's going on, and with the internet, it would be a lot more difficult to hide that from unsuspecting buyers. But selling them as Porsche 928s, like they were actually made by Porsche, seems flat out wrong to me.

Porsche would never sell their brand because they wouldn't want their name tarnished, obviously David Blanco didn't care about that. If Padron did it, it would be an issue for me, but they like Porsche would never do it. I get everybody's big picture gripe, MY point and MY opinion is that this happens so much with so many other products that it just isn't an issue for me personally.

[Lapithicus]

Here is a description of what happened from David Blanco of Blanco Cigars. He presented this in a recent video:

“We changed the name of our company from Los Blancos to Blanco Cigars. We had left over boxes and bands and CI and I came to an agreement that they would be happy to take off my hands the packaging keeping the original thought in mind with regard to the blending profile, but for a much more reasonable price to allow it to be accessible in the mass market.

So, that was the agreement and the deal that we had, for which they held up their part of the agreement.

What CI told me was that the first shipment they received from the manufacturer that they contracted in the Dominican Republic was fine. Subsequent shipments for delivery have had problem issues that they are addressing and I have been assured that they are being addressed. But for those of you that got product that were substandard or not smokable...If you received anything of it from CI, or CBid or any of their other sites, please call customer service <Blanco Cigars> and they will take care of you, hands down.

Substandard product and product that is cracked or has beetles or anything else is unacceptable, I don’t care what band is on it.

So this is a problem they are having with the manufacturer they contracted with out of the DR, which I will not name because it would be very unprofessional of me and may be isolated. The product that they did have up there and I was present for had no problems. It was a lesser quality tobacco, but it is reflected in the pricing relative to what we charge for the Premier line that we have.”

I don’t think I would call this false advertising. If you see a $6-8 cigar suddenly selling for $2 and the company’s name has changed, I think you would figure out that they are not the same.

[herman]

3. is some one who buys and smokes dollar cigars really going to give a shit? Do you think that the quality of that cigar is any worse than other 1 dollar cigars, I doubt it....

I don't know what actually happened here or how the cigar was advertised. To be fair I do remember seeing a little bit of long filler in the center though a majority was short. I guess what bothers me about this mentality, if someone were to plan and commit petty theft 20xs a day, do you think they wouldn't be facing a felony if caught? By consequence it's less lethal for a business, (perhaps not the insurance company) but for some reason I don't think the law would view this as a stack of misdemeanors no matter what state you're in. If these were truly bait and switched by CI, which I don't believe to be the case, even if the consumers were forgiving, I don't see the law being so blind unless there were a double standard providing immunity.

[spyder]

I believe this issue has roots a bit further back for BG. In a video a couple years back he discussed a common practice in the cigar industry (supposedly based on "insider" information that he received.). A manufacturer creates a premium cigar line that is a hit with consumers. They milk it for awhile until sales start fading or they run through their supply of that particular blend. Then the mfg sells off the line (including the name) and any remaining supplies to a "big box" type of retailer / wholesaler. The big box folks then highly discount the price and run with it. If it's a sales hit, they contract some OEM cigar mfg to make a decent replica at a price that will still be profitable at the lower price point. For certain price points this obviously means the mixed use of long, short and scrap fillers.

So in car terms, you wind up with a vehicle made from misc good and rejected parts with VW emblems and sold as new.

[jp1979]

I don't know what actually happened here or how the cigar was advertised. To be fair I do remember seeing a little bit of long filler in the center though a majority was short. I guess what bothers me about this mentality, if someone were to plan and commit petty theft 20xs a day, do you think they wouldn't be facing a felony if caught? By consequence it's less lethal for a business, (perhaps not the insurance company) but for some reason I don't think the law would view this as a stack of misdemeanors no matter what state you're in. If these were truly bait and switched by CI, which I don't believe to be the case, even if the consumers were forgiving, I don't see the law being so blind unless there were a double standard providing immunity.

I don't understand the point of your post.

[Tman]

This is a great popcorn thread!
http://www.kappit.com/img/pics/201409_2045_cbhdd_sm.jpg

[herman]

More of an observation. That actually made me post. I was hesitant to post or read any further, cause I really didn't care. I mean it was just a $2.00 cigar.

I actually didn't see lapithicus's post.
Thanks for the info.

[Billb1960]

So here's the video that Lapithicus was referring to:

http://youtu.be/HVxQU9nkuRI
If you skip to 23:00 you can see the discussion about these cigars.

What I don't understand is if Bryan knew the whole story back in early January when this video was produced why did he bother to create a new one with all of the hyperbole. Doesn't make much sense to me.

[B daddy]

Advertising is primarily bullshit. I wish it weren't allowed to be but it is. If it's 100% bullshit and the product's advertising is specifically regulated and it's damaging, then there might be legal reprocussions. But if it's only 80% bullshit, there's really no downside. In this particular instance, as long as it's tobacco inside (vs rat feces or oily rags) it's within acceptable tolerances. If you have a problem with it, vote with your feet.

[Ropey]

Porsche would never sell their brand because they wouldn't want their name tarnishedPorsche sells its name to a myriad of others.. I've seen Porsche vacuums, Porsche lighters, all sorts of stuff that's obviously not made by Porsche.


MY point and MY opinion is that this happens so much with so many other products that it just isn't an issue for me personally.

And hey, that's great, if you get ripped off so often that you're at a point in life where you don't mind when someone bends you over and sticks it in your butt one more time, then that's wonderful. I'm not at that point, hope I never am.

If this were a one-off from Cigars International, this thread wouldn't have expanded to 12 pages. However, I think that they, Thompson, the rest of the online cigar retailers, and perhaps the entire cigar industry are seen as such marketing hucksters that one more example just pisses people off even more. It's like a slow boil.

[Horseshoe]

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y209/andywayne/Emoticons/deadhorsebeat_4.gif. <--- still beating a dead horse.

[jp1979]

Porsche sells its name to a myriad of others.. I've seen Porsche vacuums, Porsche lighters, all sorts of stuff that's obviously not made by Porsche.

We go from talking about cars to you using lighters and vacuums... to try to prove your point? :confused:


And hey, that's great, if you get ripped off so often that you're at a point in life where you don't mind when someone bends you over and sticks it in your butt one more time, then that's wonderful.

So you study the manufacturer of every product you buy so that you are not buying something that is made by someone, then rebranded and sold for more money? Very doubtful. Also, making the assumption that I get ripped off and saying someone is sticking it up my butt is real classy bro, you know nothing about me buddy. The fact of the matter is, I really don't care if someone gets me for 50 cents if I would have bought a generic brand versus a name brand. Life is too short for that petty shit and not worth worrying about. If that is what your life is about, then have fun.

[Ropey]

We go from talking about cars to you using lighters and vacuums... to try to prove your point? You're the one who brought up some Porsche analogy and then, when other people extended it, you failed to comprehend what they were saying and wanted people to stop talking about it. We're the confused ones.


So you study the manufacturer of every product you buy so that you are not buying something that is made by someone, then rebranded and sold for more money? No, of course not, I just don't trash people who bring to my attention shady marketing. Nor do I excuse shady marketers because "everyone is doing it."

I have to admit, I don't even know how to address what you're talking about anymore. You just seem to be out of your intellectual league here. You brought up an analogy, some people gave you alternative ways of looking at your own analogy, and now you can't even seem to grasp what anyone is saying. It's kind of strange.

[jp1979]

You're the one who brought up some Porsche analogy and then, when other people extended it, you failed to comprehend what they were saying and wanted people to stop talking about it. We're the confused ones.

The post I quoted, and was responding to (with the one you quoted) we were talking about Porsche selling their name and rights to the 928 (a car, not a vacuum or a lighter) to a Vietnamese manufacturer to be sold under the same name, I said they would never do that. As far my analogy goes, extending it and taking it in a completely different irrelevant direction are two different things.

And FYI, the lighters, watches, etc... are Porsche Design, not Porsche AG but they do own it.

[Billb1960]

If this were a one-off from Cigars International, this thread wouldn't have expanded to 12 pages. However, I think that they, Thompson, the rest of the online cigar retailers, and perhaps the entire cigar industry are seen as such marketing hucksters that one more example just pisses people off even more. It's like a slow boil.

There is a significant portion, I daresay even a majority of the cigar smoking community which is always trying to find that magical cigar which smokes & tastes like a super premium but only costs a dollar or two. I'm pretty sure all of us have been there at some point in our cigar smoking progression. Hopefully most of us have learned by now that the old maxim, "you get what you pay for" applies to cigars as much as it does to any other endeavor.

However the large online vendors have learned that they can be very successful by marketing to that segment and they use "marketing speak" to do that. That's exactly what they did with the cigars which are the subject of this thread. I don't think they were being blatantly dishonest and the price point should be a very large clue that these weren't going to be Padron clones so I really don't have a problem with their tactics even though I don't think it benefits the cigar industry as a whole.

As far as the people who buy them, it's kind of like those Einsteins that fall for the Nigerian email scams. I really don't have a whole lot of sympathy for them. Do you really think you're going to get something for nothing?

[UncleFesterESQ]

There is a significant portion, I daresay even a majority of the cigar smoking community which is always trying to find that magical cigar which smokes & tastes like a super premium but only costs a dollar or two. I'm pretty sure all of us have been there at some point in our cigar smoking progression. Hopefully most of us have learned by now that the old maxim, "you get what you pay for" applies to cigars as much as it does to any other endeavor.

However the large online vendors have learned that they can be very successful by marketing to that segment and they use "marketing speak" to do that. That's exactly what they did with the cigars which are the subject of this thread. I don't think they were being blatantly dishonest and the price point should be a very large clue that these weren't going to be Padron clones so I really don't have a problem with their tactics even though I don't think it benefits the cigar industry as a whole.

As far as the people who buy them, it's kind of like those Einsteins that fall for the Nigerian email scams. I really don't have a whole lot of sympathy for them. Do you really think you're going to get something for nothing?
Game, set, match!

Although I will admit I'm still on the lookout for that $3 super premium!:stogie:

[Skeat5353]

Are you arguing that the cigar Bryan cut apart was only really worth being sold for $0.10-0.20?

What should machine-made cigars go for?

That's my whole point. How much is 'non-premium' tobacco really worth? We don't know, because there is no such thing as 'non-premium' tobacco, there is no such thing as 'non-premium' cigars--according to the fraudulent marketing practices by these online retailers, there are only 'premium' cigars and 'premium' tobacco in the market. To an uninformed consumer, a 2-dollar shit missile is just as 'premium' as a Davidoff Nicaraguan, because that's how these sites market those cigars. The only difference is the price. One is an $18 'premium' cigar and the other, a $2 'premium' cigar.

That's how companies like CI, Thompson, J&R, and other large online retailers deceive people into buying garbage. They market each cigar, Davidoff Nicaraguan and 2-dollar shit rocket, under the same 'premium' umbrella. Even more pathetic is the fact that they are perfectly within their rights to do so and are not breaking any laws. Why? Because there is absolutely no Federal oversight protecting consumers from these fraudulent marketing practices. According to their marketing methods, whether I buy the $18 Davidoff or the $2 Dog Rocket, I am still buying a 'PREMIUM' cigar.

When I first started with cigars, I signed up at the old site and put a thread out there. Top Five Nic/Dom/Hon, or something like that. And the good people responded with over 200 posts!!! Thanks to all who participated!!! I am still buying and smoking cigars from that list. In fact, the kind people here helped me avoid all kinds of pitfalls out there for the new cigar smoker. And by 'pitfalls', I mean marketing traps like the kind CI and others practice. If it wasn't for the cigar lovers here, I would've been ordering garbage and smoking shite thinking the whole time it was 'premium.' And that is inherently wrong, in my humble and very confused opinion. It doesn't necessarily make it wrong.

Honestly, how much do you think that Blanco cigar is really worth? The price really only reflects the importation costs and that's it. I bet down in the Dominican, where it was manufactured, it's probably worth 5 cents, maybe even 10. So yes, I would say that cigar freshly rolled in the Dominican Republic probably costs no more than 25 cents. But that's just a guess. I don't know what's more disturbing: the value of the cigar itself, or the fact that it is being marketed here as a 'premium' cigar. They are both quite disturbing to me.

[Browns7213]

http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a516/mdsphoto1/GoTo%20PICs/IMG_0958_zps806bb4e0.png (http://s1281.photobucket.com/user/mdsphoto1/media/GoTo%20PICs/IMG_0958_zps806bb4e0.png.html)

[MattyMatt]

http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a516/mdsphoto1/GoTo%20PICs/IMG_0958_zps806bb4e0.png (http://s1281.photobucket.com/user/mdsphoto1/media/GoTo%20PICs/IMG_0958_zps806bb4e0.png.html)

I think it is safe to say that not only did we beat this horse to death but also dismembered the carcas and buried the pieces at the four corners of the earth.

[Billb1960]

Speaking of Star Wars

http://i1372.photobucket.com/albums/ag360/hey_blue99/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-03/24150F67-286D-4C9A-8B59-082EF8CCBEDC_zps9kcv7c8b.jpg (http://s1372.photobucket.com/user/hey_blue99/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-03/24150F67-286D-4C9A-8B59-082EF8CCBEDC_zps9kcv7c8b.jpg.html)

[wabashcr]

The post I quoted, and was responding to (with the one you quoted) we were talking about Porsche selling their name and rights to the 928 (a car, not a vacuum or a lighter) to a Vietnamese manufacturer to be sold under the same name, I said they would never do that. As far my analogy goes, extending it and taking it in a completely different irrelevant direction are two different things.

And FYI, the lighters, watches, etc... are Porsche Design, not Porsche AG but they do own it.

Of course Porsche wouldn't allow that. That's kinda my point, and also beside the point. The reason I brought it up is because it's a ridiculous scenario, but also more aligned with what I think CI is doing, than Porsche simply using some VW parts in their cars. Just trying to illustrate that in my mind, it's a practice that shouldn't be accepted.

Of course CI isn't the only one doing it, and it's something much more tolerable with $2 cigars than $80k cars. I really don't mean to come across as argumentative in tone to you or anyone else on this thread. It's an interesting discussion to me (and apparently not many others). I don't even necessarily disagree with you. Just see it a little differently. :stogie:

[UncleFesterESQ]

Speaking of Star Wars

http://i1372.photobucket.com/albums/ag360/hey_blue99/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-03/24150F67-286D-4C9A-8B59-082EF8CCBEDC_zps9kcv7c8b.jpg (http://s1372.photobucket.com/user/hey_blue99/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-03/24150F67-286D-4C9A-8B59-082EF8CCBEDC_zps9kcv7c8b.jpg.html)

Favorite Tweet about that event: "The tears of one hundred million nerds will heal Harrison Ford"

[Skeat5353]

Every town needs a police chief...

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k125/pjw5353/Cigar%20Miscellany/5d66c0c8-9897-4396-a223-0883ab061505_zpsyzkuolx2.jpg (http://s87.photobucket.com/user/pjw5353/media/Cigar%20Miscellany/5d66c0c8-9897-4396-a223-0883ab061505_zpsyzkuolx2.jpg.html)

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k125/pjw5353/Cigar%20Miscellany/e2212737-20ab-43ce-b31d-643f77f13a72_zpspimzcr1d.jpg (http://s87.photobucket.com/user/pjw5353/media/Cigar%20Miscellany/e2212737-20ab-43ce-b31d-643f77f13a72_zpspimzcr1d.jpg.html)

[Emperor Zurg]

And hey, that's great, if you get ripped off so often that you're at a point in life where you don't mind when someone bends you over and sticks it in your butt one more time, then that's wonderful. I'm not at that point, hope I never am.

If this were a one-off from Cigars International, this thread wouldn't have expanded to 12 pages. However, I think that they, Thompson, the rest of the online cigar retailers, and perhaps the entire cigar industry are seen as such marketing hucksters that one more example just pisses people off even more. It's like a slow boil.

You're not getting ripped off. That's the point. You're getting exactly what you paid for; a sub $2 cigar.

I guess you'd feel a lot better letting the FDA define what is and what is not a 'premium cigar'. Is that what you want? Government regulation of cigars? I thought we had reached a consensus on that months ago...

[Sticky B]

That's my whole point. How much is 'non-premium' tobacco really worth? We don't know, because there is no such thing as 'non-premium' tobacco, there is no such thing as 'non-premium' cigars--according to the fraudulent marketing practices by these online retailers, there are only 'premium' cigars and 'premium' tobacco in the market. To an uninformed consumer, a 2-dollar shit missile is just as 'premium' as a Davidoff Nicaraguan, because that's how these sites market those cigars. The only difference is the price. One is an $18 'premium' cigar and the other, a $2 'premium' cigar.

That's how companies like CI, Thompson, J&R, and other large online retailers deceive people into buying garbage. They market each cigar, Davidoff Nicaraguan and 2-dollar shit rocket, under the same 'premium' umbrella. Even more pathetic is the fact that they are perfectly within their rights to do so and are not breaking any laws. Why? Because there is absolutely no Federal oversight protecting consumers from these fraudulent marketing practices. According to their marketing methods, whether I buy the $18 Davidoff or the $2 Dog Rocket, I am still buying a 'PREMIUM' cigar.

When I first started with cigars, I signed up at the old site and put a thread out there. Top Five Nic/Dom/Hon, or something like that. And the good people responded with over 200 posts!!! Thanks to all who participated!!! I am still buying and smoking cigars from that list. In fact, the kind people here helped me avoid all kinds of pitfalls out there for the new cigar smoker. And by 'pitfalls', I mean marketing traps like the kind CI and others practice. If it wasn't for the cigar lovers here, I would've been ordering garbage and smoking shite thinking the whole time it was 'premium.' And that is inherently wrong, in my humble and very confused opinion. It doesn't necessarily make it wrong.

Honestly, how much do you think that Blanco cigar is really worth? The price really only reflects the importation costs and that's it. I bet down in the Dominican, where it was manufactured, it's probably worth 5 cents, maybe even 10. So yes, I would say that cigar freshly rolled in the Dominican Republic probably costs no more that 25 cents. But that's just a guess. I don't know what's more disturbing: the value of the cigar itself, or the fact that it is being marketed here as a 'premium' cigar. They are both quite disturbing to me.If that's your major gripe, that one word, then get over it. Instead you'll defend Brian for calling it a "fake" cigar? Just because he's the small guy?

And yes, if there are two kinds of cigars, there could be "machine-made" and "premium", which yes, covers a LOT of ground. Just like there can be a $2 premium and a $20 premium, the same goes with alcohol. Is not the 14X filtered PREMIUM VODKA sold in plastic jugs the same thing? Are you confused as to which will taste like toiletwater and give you a headache in the morning when shopping for these things?

Are you saying that without help from others, you'd STILL be smoking $2 dogrockets wondering why they weren't as "Premium" (in your mind, of course, some people LOVE em) as you expected- KNOWING that there are also much much more expensive cigars out there? And you would think, HEY-BOTH PREMIUM! and not know that there was any difference otherwise?

If that's the case, you might need the government to hold your hand, probably as you cross the street, as you may be a danger to yourself and/or others.

You're saying a cigar can be worth 5 cents and sold for that in America? You realize machine-made cigars sell for $0.50. How is one that takes human hands to create worth 1/5 of that? Have you no knowledge of what goes into logistics, or no respect for any of the work put into making a hand-made cigar, even if it has what you consider less-than-premium filler?

The point here, is that premium is subjective, so it can be used in advertising when some may disagree. They are not saying certain things that are flat outright lies, and that's why they can get away with it. Making accusations and saying someone is being dishonest without real proof, based only on your interpretation of a subjective word is not okay. You can express your opinion, but that's not what happened, and why the video was removed. It crossed the line that keeps coming up in these countless imaginary scenarios and comparisons that aren't what happened. The cigar wasn't even being called a "premium" at the time, which means this whole thing is really a big case of

http://images.christianpost.com/full/51666/rushs-foot-in-mouth-problem.jpg

Best part - finding company's use of loose word "premium" contentious, while feeling fully in the right throwing around words like "fraudulent"



You're not getting ripped off. That's the point. You're getting exactly what you paid for; a sub $2 cigar.

I guess you'd feel a lot better letting the FDA define what is and what is not a 'premium cigar'. Is that what you want? Government regulation of cigars? I thought we had reached a consensus on that months ago...

I believe that's where he might be going with it? I'd say any hand-rolled cigar can be considered "premium". It's not a well-defined word. Many companies call things premium that aren't exactly that. But it's subjective, so it's not technically a lie. Advertisers use this all the time.

I'm glad that this is what we're concerned about the government regulating rather than companies having to tell us if there is laboratory engineered DNA in the things we eat

[jpalamar]

I have nothing productive to say that hasn't been said already so I leave you with this....

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o32/jasonpalamar/Forum/the_things_you_find_on_tumblr_34_photos7_142249217 8_zps1dhnubpj.jpg (http://s116.photobucket.com/user/jasonpalamar/media/Forum/the_things_you_find_on_tumblr_34_photos7_142249217 8_zps1dhnubpj.jpg.html)

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o32/jasonpalamar/Forum/daily-morning-awesomeness-35-photos-335_zpsrfm8pszh.gif (http://s116.photobucket.com/user/jasonpalamar/media/Forum/daily-morning-awesomeness-35-photos-335_zpsrfm8pszh.gif.html)

[Skeat5353]

Hey Sean. I'm not looking to begin some long diatribe on the current marketing practices in the cigar industry. I think the market is fine the way it is. We get good cigars at affordable prices. I guess the 60-Minutes journalist in me (wannabe, lol) is looking to uncover every single form of corruption and fraud. Honestly, I like CI, regardless of their marketing practices. And, honestly, I don't put too much stock in Bryan Glynn's opinion about cigars. Like I said, I find it unbelievable that he has 10,000+ Youtube subscribers and a good reputation among industry insiders. Maybe this whole thing is over some personal grudge we don't even know about. Who knows?

I will concede that my use of the word 'fraudulent' is a bit heavy-handed and presumptuous on my part. What marketing execs do to sell their product is well within the laws and regulations of commerce. I do not want any more Federal oversight than the next guy. But I think there's something to be said for 'Lemon Laws.' Otherwise we'd still be buying crappy used cars for top-dollar. Now I don't know if 'Lemon Laws' in the used car industry can be applied to cigar industry marketing practices. Probably not. And it doesn't matter to me if such laws were in place, at this point, because now I know better and, like I said, I feel the industry is fine the way it is for my purposes. But keep in mind that for years sleezy car salesmen used the Caveat Emptor clause in sales to fleece and swindle consumers.

After reading Ropey's post, I kinda extrapolated (even perhaps exaggerated) a deeply unethical practice within the industry. But your point is very valid. Morally unethical practices are an entirely different thing than fraudulent. Ropey is correct in saying these marketing practices happen in a gray area of federal regulation. When you go to the gas station, there are always three grades of octane you can buy. It's still the same product, technically speaking. It's gasoline. Most luxury engines burn fuel more efficiently at higher octane levels, so therefore it's a federal requirement that each grade is indicated and priced accordingly. There's probably other reasons for those grades and I won't pretend to know them. I don't.

Why not have the same standards for tobacco? Because clearly there are different 'grades' of the tobacco used to make cigars, and they are priced accordingly. Any way, I think I've exhausted this thread. I am not trying to indict the whole marketing machine of the cigar industry. I think it's fine the way it is. Is there room for improvement? I think there is.

You are also correct in calling the word 'premium' subjective. 'Premium' covers a wide spectrum of cigars with varying qualities. But returning to my gasoline analogy, if all grades were 'premium,' then at the pump I'd be buying regular fuel under a premium classification. So in that instance, the word 'premium' is not subjective at all. It's comparable. But like I said, the subjective use of the word 'premium' allows cigar marketers a broad spectrum. You're right, though. By no means fraudulent. Morally unethical, maybe. I think that's a personal judgment that really depends on the moral lens through which you view the world in general. But you are right: 'Fraudulence' is too heavy a word and too heavy an accusation.

I leave this thread with one simple question. Heck, it might even be interesting to have a poll on this. Is the following cigar really 'Premium'?

http://www.cigarsinternational.com/samplers/81077/kismet-premium-sampler-box/#p-150816

Yes or no?

I say, 'No.' If you took a blind test with the cigar above and, say, a Padron '26, it would be easy to determine which cigar had genuine, premium tobacco. In fact, if a 100 testers took the same blind test, I bet 100% of them would identify which cigar had better quality tobacco in it.

[Billb1960]

They seem to have some decent reviews:

http://kohnhed.com/2013/11/10/kismet-by-royal-gold-cigars-cigar-review/

http://www.blindmanspuff.com/blind-cigar-review-royal-gold-kismet-fate/

http://cigarfederation.com/profiles/blogs/review-royal-gold-cigars-kismet-destiny

[MattyMatt]

http://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah48/mepaley/F6555E40-5D7D-47B8-B3DA-983834B10859_zpsojtqzxwg.jpg (http://s1377.photobucket.com/user/mepaley/media/F6555E40-5D7D-47B8-B3DA-983834B10859_zpsojtqzxwg.jpg.html)

[wabashcr]

Oh look. Katman declared it a flavor bomb. He said the same thing in the Los Blancos Premiere Selection review I linked to earlier in this thread. I actually enjoy his reviews, but he likes a lot of stuff I would never touch. I guess that's kinda my issue with CI buying brands and contracting them out at lower quality. There are reviews out there that make people think they're good cigars, and people may think they're getting a great deal, only to find out they've paid for crap.

I just bought a box of Ave Marias on cbid last night for $60. That's $3 a stick, and even though I believe these have been CI smokes from the get go, if I get my box and find out they're not the same as all the others I've come to enjoy, I'll be pretty pissed off. I think they're fantastic morning smokes, and at $3 each, they're an incredible value.

[Skeat5353]

They seem to have some decent reviews:

http://kohnhed.com/2013/11/10/kismet-by-royal-gold-cigars-cigar-review/

http://www.blindmanspuff.com/blind-cigar-review-royal-gold-kismet-fate/

http://cigarfederation.com/profiles/blogs/review-royal-gold-cigars-kismet-destiny

For the sake of honesty, I actually just bought the sampler. LOL! They look pretty decent. I never admitted anywhere that I was not a sucker.

[Billb1960]

Oh look. Katman declared it a flavor bomb. He said the same thing in the Los Blancos Premiere Selection review I linked to earlier in this thread. I actually enjoy his reviews, but he likes a lot of stuff I would never touch. I guess that's kinda my issue with CI buying brands and contracting them out at lower quality. There are reviews out there that make people think they're good cigars, and people may think they're getting a great deal, only to find out they've paid for crap.

I just bought a box of Ave Marias on cbid last night for $60. That's $3 a stick, and even though I believe these have been CI smokes from the get go, if I get my box and find out they're not the same as all the others I've come to enjoy, I'll be pretty pissed off. I think they're fantastic morning smokes, and at $3 each, they're an incredible value.

Well first of all Katman wasn't the only one who liked it which is why I posted links to 2 other reviews. That aside we've drifted off into apples & oranges comparisons here.

AFAIK Kismet is still made by Royal Gold and isn't some no name stick rebranded because CI bought the stock of leftover bands & boxes. The same scenario applies to Ave Maria, they're made by AJF so I don't think you have anything to worry about unless you've heard something different.

The Los Blanco cigar that he reviewed was made by the company owned by David Blanco as opposed to the unnamed DR factory pumping out the dogrockets.

[Lynn]

looks Premium to me..except for that Churchill Id have to cut in half

[wabashcr]

The Los Blanco cigar that he reviewed was made by the company owned by David Blanco as opposed to the unnamed DR factory pumping out the dogrockets.

It would appear that way, since I believe Blanco actually sent him the cigar. His review is just a year old, so I'm sure some unsuspecting people have bought the CI version, since it has the exact same name and band.

As for Ave Maria, yes, it's an AJF stick, but I believe it's a CI exclusive. So I'm not sure what's stopping them from building a decent reputation, and then pulling the old bait and switch again. if AJ has any stake in it, they could easily buy him out and move to a cheaper product. I hope they don't, because I love those smokes.

Contrary to what I've posted in this thread, I don't dislike CI. Actually quite the opposite, I've had nothing but good experiences buying from them. One particular business practice of theirs (that I'm sure isn't unique to CI in the industry) seems really unethical to me. But I don't think that makes them a bad company. To me it's just a bit of a black eye. Overall I think CI is a good outfit.

[Lynn]

anybody that gives a old guy discount I'll buy from..

[Deke]

973

[Skeat5353]

looks Premium to me..except for that Churchill Id have to cut in half


anybody that gives a old guy discount I'll buy from..

LOLOLOLOLOLO!!! Now I know this thread has come to its bitter end. At least we were able to carry on a decent discussion until Mr. Troll Non Sequitur showed up!!! I'm sure you're a big fan of premium Dog Rockets, Lynn. Especially after you dust them up nice.

I hope you're the old man you say you are. And if you are, then I apologize for my recent tirades directed towards you. But something tells me you are here to cause trouble. Incite anger. Upset the balance of the community. Typical trolling behavior. You know, Lynn, because of you I face being banned from this forum. Which would suck, because my real interest is trying to be a productive member of this community.

I've accepted my punishment for my expletive-filled tirade directed towards you. I just happen to descend from a family of mean Sicilians and tough Irish bastards. Our tolerance from BS is zero. I lost my cool. And there's no place for that kind of interaction here in a peaceful community of cigar smokers. Never, in fact, have I ever erupted at someone in a forum in the way I erupted at you. If you are who you say you are, then accept my apology.

But if you are not that person (a harmless old Marine who just likes to disrupt every productive thread with non-sequitur, contrarian one-liners) then my comments directed towards you are justified. You constantly seem to turn up in every constructive thread and then offer nothing but inflammatory, irrelevant interjections, which only seem meant to incite resentment and acrimony.

In your introduction to people here, you stated that you are the peg that doesn't fit the hole. No. You are a United States Marine. You stated that you have no real interest in being a productive community member, and that one forum is the same as another. You also stated that your only real interest here is to eventually be the first one banned, because you've been banned from all the other forums you've ever been a part of.

So why is it that every thread I've seen you in, you are constantly trying to subvert and controvert what people are saying? I tell you that Thompson Cigar Co. ripped me off and didn't refund my money, you then chime in to say how wonderful they are and you order from them all the time and have never been burned. When the whole time, the thread was about a member here getting burned by them. All I was trying to do was prevent unsuspecting suckers like me from being swindled into a $150 pitfall.

We then have an interesting discussion in the Habanos section about revealing vendor names and practices. Some say it's a good idea, others say it's not. But you tell us we're all fools and then reveal the name of a vendor in Mexico, not only jeopardizing the vendor's livelihood but at the same time undermining the credibility of this fledgling forum altogether. You know, Lynn, maybe not in the coal mines of West Virginia, but here in the real world, in the streets, there's lawyers, cops, crooks, pimps, rats, and scum everywhere. And they're all looking to make a name for themselves, one way or another. I was glad to see the moderators removed your awful rotten post.

I've been an editor for years. Worked in film, television, for newspapers, magazines, and websites. I never had great success at it. But I have learned one thing along the way. A successful magazine, website, movie, television production, newspaper, whatever...its success always depends on two things: the people who are attracted to it, and every single individual involved in making it. You put one bad egg in the mix and the whole thing falls apart eventually. Look at what Don King did for heavy weight boxing. People like you, who come to these forums to be disruptive, unproductive, antagonistic, really just undermine the whole effort of those who wish its success.

Now I'd like to believe you're some harmless old veteran wiling away your idle hours by stirring up bad blood, resentment, and acrimony. But my past experience with forums tells me otherwise. My real feeling is that you are a disgruntled former member of Puff.com with a grudge against our moderators here. That's why everything you say and do here stinks of vindictiveness. I now work in the investigation field, with lawyers and cops. I know the smell of shit after I've stepped in it.

I've done a search of your user name at other prominent cigar forums. Nothing turns up. You also joined Cigarbum just a few days after the disappearance of the old site. Hmmmmmm, really? Most of your contributions here in the threads I've been involved in have been downright confrontational, disruptive, and unproductive. It almost seems as if you are here to settle a grudge by trying--completely and purposefully--to undermine the legitimacy of this forum. Hmmm, one forum is as good as another, so you claim. You've been banned from all your previous forums. Hmmmmm, were you banned from Puff? Hmmmmmm, I wonder......

[Skeat5353]

anybody that gives a old guy discount I'll buy from..

Is that what you tell the Asian woman at the massage parlor?

[Marc L]

Maybe this is a clue what factory Dave Blanco sold his label to that he didn't want to mention.

Posted on Monday, March 9, 2015 on CO


"Today I received and responded to what boiled down to a cease and desist Trademark Violation letter from General Cigar, for my Cigar Art involving their frontmarks, which is now just a portfolio here on the site. Since it’s not worth a penny to me to fight, I gave in and stopped offering the artwork for sale.

So as a result I am no longer supporting in any way, General Cigar. No more reviews of their products (unless one accidentally slips by because I didn’t realize it was under their umbrella), no more press releases, no more accepting them for advertising.
To be crystal clear I am not advocating consumers do anything. I am simply informing you of what I am personally doing regarding the site.
So there’s a big warning to anyone producing and selling anything with Brands/Logos such as any other kind of artwork, clocks, guitars, collages with bands, etc."

[wabashcr]

Interesting. Also, General and CI are both owned by the same parent company. Not something they like to broadcast.

[Skeat5353]

Interesting. Also, General and CI are both owned by the same parent company. Not something they like to broadcast.

There it is in a nutshell. If you read some of the chatter underneath the story, Glynn and another viewer both find it ironic that this comes on the heels of the CI debacle last week. Glynn is also asking--in so many words--all his 10,000+ subscribers to boycott GC products. LOL! I hope that fat dope knows who he's messing with. There's a lot of hungry alligators in the swamps of Florida.

Ironic that the producers of Cohiba, Partagas, Punch, etc. have sent him a trademark violation letter. Btw, I did not know that General and CI are owned by same parent company, Scandinavian Tobacco Group (STG). They're a massive European tobacco conglomerate. That means high-priced army of lawyers. The big guy wins again.

http://halfwheel.com/parent-general-cigar-co-going-public-swedish-match-divests-ownership-stake

That's an interesting article. The company is planning on building a Cigars International Superstore in Texas in the latter part of 2015!!! Here comes the Walmart of cigars. The walk-in humidor will probably be 10,000 square feet. That actually might be cool.

[Marc L]

Y'all might find this interesting. It's a good episode but, it is queued up from youtube at 39m18s


http://youtu.be/mtBBMYgx6dw?t=39m21s

[Marc L]

On a retailed follow up. http://cigarobsession.com/2015/03/18/truth-in-advertising-in-our-beloved-cigar-industry/

[MattyMatt]

CI has updated the description on their site for the Blanco:

"Sink your teeth into this massively discounted blowout on Dominican handmades. Humidor-style chests, 4 blends, big sizes, prices under 2 bucks per cigar. This economical short-filler blend is perfect for mowing the lawn or handing out to cigar-wasting freeloaders.

The Maduro option presents sweet, rich, and hearty characteristics balanced by notes of espresso, cream, cocoa, and black pepper."

I have to give them [CI] some props for lending more clarity to what the product is while also bringing some levity to the whole situation. In the end, Glynn, CI and the consumer all win. Glynn ups his site traffic, as does CI and the consumer gets a little knowledge and transparency out of it all. They say even bad press is good press.

[Browns7213]

On a retailed follow up. http://cigarobsession.com/2015/03/18/truth-in-advertising-in-our-beloved-cigar-industry/

So, against my better judgement I went to CO to read his drivel. After reading the responses from the retailers and manufacturers I come away with one opinion. A few of them are lying through their teeth in order to protect their business model and their image as a purveyor of premium cigars.

[wabashcr]

So, against my better judgement I went to CO to read his drivel. After reading the responses from the retailers and manufacturers I come away with one opinion. A few of them are lying through their teeth in order to protect their business model and their image as a purveyor of premium cigars.

Agree. And I think we know which ones, too.

I'm far from a CO/BG fan, and he definitely made some mistakes with this. But I have to give him some credit. He has a voice in the industry, and he's using it here for something worthwhile, something that definitely benefits consumers. I don't think any of these sellers are going to change their business practices overnight because of this. But he's managed to shine a fairly bright light on the issue, and has brought many of the major players in the industry into the discussion. I'm not sure what that's worth, but I think it's worth something.

[Demuths1770]

ok did i read that right BG wants ALL OF HIS VIEWERS to email cigar manufactures and retailers asking if they make and sell real cigars???? thats rediculous. these companiesa are going to be FLOODED with pointless emails because he got a spank on the hand?? i find this move as very bad taste by him imo

[Emperor Zurg]

ok did i read that right BG wants ALL OF HIS VIEWERS to email cigar manufactures and retailers asking if they make and sell real cigars???? thats rediculous. these companiesa are going to be FLOODED with pointless emails because he got a spank on the hand?? i find this move as very bad taste by him imo

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
What about us viewers who only watch occasionally to laugh at him?
Self Obsession, indeed!
http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww173/prestonjjrtr/Smileys/Smiley-tantrum.gif

[Upstatemax]

ok did i read that right BG wants ALL OF HIS VIEWERS to email cigar manufactures and retailers asking if they make and sell real cigars???? thats rediculous. these companiesa are going to be FLOODED with pointless emails because he got a spank on the hand?? i find this move as very bad taste by him imo

Yes, it looks like he did ask his viewers to contact them.

Is this a bad idea?

I don't think so. If those manufacturers and retails are flooded with emails, it will show them exactly how many people that they are marketing to, care about this issue.

BG maybe be over the top and hot headed, but at the heart of the issue he is right. If they totally re-blend a cigar like they did, pack it in the same boxes and labels as the original stuff and claim that it's simply a big savings and make zero mention of the re-blend, to short filler (or floor sweepings as described). That IMO, equates to bait and switch.

Fear of public knowledge and its subsequent backlash is a big motivator...

[HabanoMan]

The man is a condescending self-important @$$hole. Always has been and probably always will be. That is IMVHO.

[Demuths1770]

Yes, it looks like he did ask his viewers to contact them.

Is this a bad idea?

I don't think so. If those manufacturers and retails are flooded with emails, it will show them exactly how many people that they are marketing to, care about this issue.

BG maybe be over the top and hot headed, but at the heart of the issue he is right. If they totally re-blend a cigar like they did, pack it in the same boxes and labels as the original stuff and claim that it's simply a big savings and make zero mention of the re-blend, to short filler (or floor sweepings as described). That IMO, equates to bait and switch.

Fear of public knowledge and its subsequent backlash is a big motivator...

it is stated it is not a "bait and switch" rebanded cigar but instead a short filler cigar that was just not stated as a short filler but at close to 2 dollars a stick that should go unspoken that it would not be a great long filler cigar, common sense.

[Upstatemax]

it is stated it is not a "bait and switch" rebanded cigar but instead a short filler cigar that was just not stated as a short filler but at close to 2 dollars a stick that should go unspoken that it would not be a great long filler cigar, common sense.

The original versions of those cigars were long filler...

IMO, it's unethical to market a cigar like it's the original thing when, clearly, it's not.

The new description does that. It's the right thing to do.

[Billb1960]

IMO some of the blame has to fall on David Blanco as well. What smart businessman would allow his name to be used on cigars that he had absolutely no control over? He'd have been better off recycling the old bands & boxes than selling them to CI and letting them put them on whatever cigar they felt like.

[Demuths1770]

is there anything that shows before it was a long filler stick?? it looks like its now an exlusive to cigars international because it seems you cant find them anywhere else

[Demuths1770]

IMO some of the blame has to fall on David Blanco as well. What smart businessman would allow his name to be used on cigars that he had absolutely no control over? He'd have been better off recycling the old bands & boxes than selling them to CI and letting them put them on whatever cigar they felt like.

the blanco website still shows THEY make them so have they changed the way the cigars are made for CI?? COs has no response from Blanco

[Billb1960]

the blanco website still shows THEY make them so have they changed the way the cigars are made for CI?? COs has no response from Blanco

Yeah apparently they haven't updated it yet which is even more confusing if you don't know the back story.

[Tman]

Brian is a twat for wanting the readers to e-mail the manufacturers. Great, now we can enjoy a $20 premium cigars that's "guaranteed" to be long filler cigars so some asshat that can't distinguish good tasting cigar from bad can say it's a good cigar.

[jp1979]

Lets email all the vendors and ask if they sell fakes... What a joke

[Lapithicus]

the blanco website still shows THEY make them so have they changed the way the cigars are made for CI?? COs has no response from Blanco

David Blanco states in the video that he still has some of the original left in stock. If you want some, the promotion code "COFANS" still works for a 25% discount. Not a bad deal for a premium cigar.

[RogueBallBoy]

The stupidiity to me is that the guy was acting like CI sold him fake LPs, or fake Pardons. Like being shocked that a mcdouble is not the same quality beef as NY strip. He's a total penis in my opinion.

[Billb1960]

David Blanco states in the video that he still has some of the original left in stock. If you want some, the promotion code "COFANS" still works for a 25% discount. Not a bad deal for a premium cigar.

Nevertheless it still doesn't explain why he would allow his name to be put on what are clearly low quality cigars over which he has no control. In an industry in which heritage and reputation are paramount why would you set yourself up for this kind of failure?

[Skeat5353]

LOL, gents! This is what I love about our amazing country. How in the world can a fat dope sit in his backyard and pucker his lips like a baboon over a cigar and then, in some inexplicable way, gain an audience that listens to him? LOLOLOL. Like I said above, until there is some way to measure the various grades of tobacco that produce a cigar, we will be smoking $2 'Premium' Shit Rockets and $18 'Premium' Davidoffs. Blanco is a thief. He knew what he was doing. Let's face it, guys, the only people this really affects are newbs, suckers, and fools. When I buy a $2 cigar, I know exactly what I'm getting--something I can smoke when I'm too drunk to know the difference. It's like JP1979 said in one of his posts in this thread, "He opened up a $2 cigar and discovered it was a $2 cigar." C'mon. I actually bought a 5er of those cigars and smoked one the other night. It sucked, but it was cheap.

[Tman]

Nevertheless it still doesn't explain why he would allow his name to be put on what are clearly low quality cigars over which he has no control. In an industry in which heritage and reputation are paramount why would you set yourself up for this kind of failure?

Yeah, everyone's hindsight's 20/20. Blancos probably thought that selling off their low-profit line to CI would be beneficial since it wasn't doing well in the first place. On top of that, they can manage to make some profit by focusing on their main sellers.

Also, CI might have been the one surprised by the off-shoot quality of the cigars that the replacement factory produced. Who's in the wrong here? Who knows. What we can do is to vote with our wallet and not create a war where it's not needed.

[spyder]

Since this thread is now sliding toward the gutter, I think it's probably time to close it.
Whether you like Bryan, his website, his reviews or the way he contributes to this hobby or not ... I personally find the name calling and personal bashing offensive.

[Billb1960]

Yeah, everyone's hindsight's 20/20. Blancos probably thought that selling off their low-profit line to CI would be beneficial since it wasn't doing well in the first place. On top of that, they can manage to make some profit by focusing on their main sellers.

Also, CI might have been the one surprised by the off-shoot quality of the cigars that the replacement factory produced. Who's in the wrong here? Who knows. What we can do is to vote with our wallet and not create a war where it's not needed.

Your point is well taken, hindsight is 20/20 but it seems like Glynn is so busy bagging on CI he's neglected to mention the fact that if Blanco had simply refused to make the deal none of this would be an issue. He's obviously tight with Blanco so he's playing favorites and that's kind of a shitty way to do business.

[Billb1960]

Since this thread is now sliding toward the gutter, I think it's probably time to close it.
Whether you like Bryan, his website, his reviews or the way he contributes to this hobby or not ... I personally find the name calling and personal bashing offensive.

Or you could simply curtail your participation in it, just sayin'...

[Skeat5353]

Since this thread is now sliding toward the gutter, I think it's probably time to close it.
Whether you like Bryan, his website, his reviews or the way he contributes to this hobby or not ... I personally find the name calling and personal bashing offensive.

Hey, man. It's not about calling names. It's about calling a spade a spade. You can place as much stock in Bryan Glynn as you'd like but, at the end of the day, he's no expert on anything. What credibility could he possibly have? This is the same goofball who smoked and reviewed a fake Montecristo No. 2 on his Youtube channel!!!! That's right!!! HE BOUGHT, SMOKED, AND REVIEWED A FAKE MONTE NO. 2 ON HIS SHOW. Not only that, but he loved it and gave it a rave review. After viewers called him out on the fact that it was blatantly fake, he issued an apology. Now WTF is that? Why close this thread? I find it quite informative and a lot of the guys here are on point.

[Tman]

Your point is well taken, hindsight is 20/20 but it seems like Glynn is so busy bagging on CI he's neglected to mention the fact that if Blanco had simply refused to make the deal none of this would be an issue. He's obviously tight with Blanco so he's playing favorites and that's kind of a shitty way to do business.

Yeah, I really do think Bryan was trying to side for Blanco. I almost feel sorry for David Blanco now that I think about it. Pretty sure David didn't need anyone fighting his wars. I bet David probably thinks Bryan is a *insert name here* too.

[Sigaar]

Jeez, what is with the all the Bryan Glynn bashing here?! I don't know the guy, but have enjoyed watching many of his reviews, especially when I first became interested in cigars last year. Flame away, but I think he is good for the hobby and helps get people interested.

[jhedrick83]

Guys, dissenting opnions are good for a community and can be constructive. The thing is we need to keep it constructive. Constructive doesn't mean it has to be all positive mind you but it does mean we need to keep it on topic and refrain from making it personal with other members.

[spyder]

I'm not saying Bryan is any kind of expert and I'd imagine he'd say the same. But calling him a penis, fat, stupid, goofball, etc, etc. does nothing but degrade the discussion IMO. I guess I'm old school and don't think personal ridicules are warranted just because I don't like someone's opinion or they way they conduct themselves.

[Tman]

I apologize. I just think he (Bryan) should stick to reviewing cigars and not make it harder for the cigar makers than it already is. Remember that it all trickles down to us, the consumers, that pays the ultimate price. If you don't like the cigars? Fine. Don't buy them! No need to write them a letter. I hope we got better things to do in our lives.

[Tman]

I'm not saying Bryan is any kind of expert and I'd imagine he'd say the same. But calling him a penis, fat, stupid, goofball, etc, etc. does nothing but degrade the discussion IMO. I guess I'm old school and don't think personal ridicules are warranted just because I don't like someone's opinion or they way they conduct themselves.

I agree. In the same respect, calling cigar by a company "floor sweepings", "trash", "unsmokable", wouldn't you take that as a personal insult if it was your company? I know two wrongs don't make a right, but I also believe "eye for an eye".

[Billb1960]

I think Glynn probably thinks he's doing the right thing but IMO he could've done it differently and when he got his hand slapped instead of learning his lesson he decided to try to up the ante and now he's taken a tact that isn't going to end up with him looking good.

[Skeat5353]

I'm not saying Bryan is any kind of expert and I'd imagine he'd say the same. But calling him a penis, fat, stupid, goofball, etc, etc. does nothing but degrade the discussion IMO. I guess I'm old school and don't think personal ridicules are warranted just because I don't like someone's opinion or they way they conduct themselves.

You're right. And I'm not a man who resents another man's success. In fact, I'm the opposite. I praise and envy a man who has achieved success--maybe because I'm a total loser (I don't know). But I maintain my God-given right to judge the foundation of a man's success. If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, then I have the right to call it a duck. How many cigars of the thousand Glynn has reviewed are not what they appear to be? Probably a lot. I'm not picking on Glynn, per se. I think the whole cigar industry needs an overhaul. Cigar marketers can still pass off garbage as premium, even though it's cheap premium. Honestly, though, I think the end of the Embargo is going to change all industry standards and all these so-called 'premium' blends will be put in their place. They'll be out of business, where they belong.

[Herf N Turf]

Okay, okay, OKAY!

Come on, guys. Hasn't this thread descended far enough into personal flaming and anarchic bashing such that we can say, "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH?"

Let's not forget that we are all MEMBERS of the general cigar community. Let's not forget that these blenders, rollers, manufacturers and vendors are solely here for OUR BENEFIT?

No one's out to "Fake" anyone and no one's out to intentionally rip anyone off!

If someone makes a $1.00 cigar you don't like, there's no problem in saying you don't like it, but NINETEEN PAGES of just going on and on and on and on...? Really?


How are you serving the cigar hobbyist community at large by perpetuating this sort of thing?

You lost me with the original title and the content lost me at about page 5.

Come on! We're better than this!