Walk In Humidity Stratification

[SoCal gunner]

I remember starting in this hobby thinking that humid air would be more dense because its air with water in it - so it has to be heavier, right?

But spend any time searching on the Internet and you'll see it explained by people much smarter than I am that the reverse is actually true.

It's certainly a non-issue in your typical desktop humidor or tupperdor. Even my curiosity back then was for a small skinny but tall cabinet and ideal boveda placement.

But now with a 9ft tall "step in", I've been playing around with hygrometers and placement of my humidifier sensor.

Guess what - my bottom shelf (about 2ft off the floor) consistently shows a higher rH than my mid-upper shelf at about 6ft. And by about 5 rh!

I initially placed the controller feedback sensor up high to avoid a too high of an rH at the bottom, but now I getting that exact effect.

I ASSumed I'd have enough air flow with the open shelving, small space and the fan on the humidifier. I'm considering a couple silent PC fans that always run, but I'm not sure it would be any different.

Sure I could just place the controller sensor at the bottom and be done, but I thought I'd throw this out to the BUMS for comment.

[josh lucky 13]

I think the pc fan option is the best option. I would consider 4-6 1 bottom blowing up 1 top blowing over 1 top blowing down 1 bottom blowing over creating a loose circle. You could add middle if you want but still maintain the circle. This should allow even distribution of humidity. Also how many hygrometers are you running?

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[Ciro]

I think the pc fan option is the best option. I would consider 4-6 1 bottom blowing up 1 top blowing over 1 top blowing down 1 bottom blowing over creating a loose circle. You could add middle if you want but still maintain the circle. This should allow even distribution of humidity. Also how many hygrometers are you running?

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I concur with josh lucky 13 he is all wise!!

[SoCal gunner]

I've got at least 6 hygrometers from my tupperdors in there that I've calibrated and moved around for double checking. They seldom match perfectly, but all pretty close outside one that is off on temp too.
Two of these are the SensorPush models that track data via Bluetooth.
I really don't want to run a bunch of wire around in there for fans - both the aesthetics and if you attach to the shelves, they become fixed unless you want to rewire. But in my head, its probably the answer. Maybe I can temp something up for a trial.
Anyone have specific fans they run in their cabinets or wineadors?

[chain_gang]

Only thing that popped in my head was the flooring. Do you think there's any moistore/vapor coming underneath your flooring? Could account for the higher readings near the bottom shelves.

[josh lucky 13]

Run wires under shelves and in corners. I would also run them on a timer 10-15 min every 6 hrs or so.

[SoCal gunner]

Only thing that popped in my head was the flooring. Do you think there's any moistore/vapor coming underneath your flooring? Could account for the higher readings near the bottom shelves.Good thought, but I don't think so? I put a vapor barrier down, plus the padding and backing on the planks.

[SoCal gunner]

Run wires under shelves and in corners. I would also run them on a timer 10-15 min every 6 hrs or so.Scanning Amazon now

[Nature]

It is correct that humid air is less dense than dry air; but so is warmer air.

Theory
Warm air rises. Warm air has more moisture holding capacity. Thus RELATIVE humid (remember, temperature dependent) decreases.
The absolute moisture content in the air is probably more consistent, but due to temp differences varies at different levels with the temperature.
This could also be an effect if the floor is cooler, especially if you are sitting on a slab and then slightly cooling the air directly close to it ==> rise in Relative humidity.

I would be curious to see what thermometers read at various levels. :ask:

I agree a small recirculating fan would help. It wouldn't take much, nor have to run all of the time.

[SoCal gunner]

It is correct that humid air is less dense than dry air; but so is warmer air.

Theory
Warm air rises. Warm air has more moisture holding capacity. Thus RELATIVE humid (remember, temperature dependent) decreases.
The absolute moisture content in the air is probably more consistent, but due to temp differences varies at different levels with the temperature.
This could also be an effect if the floor is cooler, especially if you are sitting on a slab and then slightly cooling the air directly close to it ==> rise in Relative humidity.

I would be curious to see what thermometers read at various levels. :ask:

I agree a small recirculating fan would help. It wouldn't take much, nor have to run all of the time.See! Thats why threw this out there! An angle I didn't think of.

I checked the data logger and its a very consistent 1°F cooler at the bottom shelf. Is 1° enough? I don't know. I think I'll drop one on the floor and one on the top shelf to see what the max difference is.

[CentralTimeSmoke]

Get that puppy to 65RH at the top and 60RH at the bottom...NCs on the top and Cubans on the bottom. Voila.

[Nature]

This is good illustration.
Notice, the water content stays the same; but RH varies with the temp.

I think 5% diff in RH per 1° F sounds a bit much, but there could be other factors.

https://wfxl.com/resources/media/662a89e2-4196-4a96-b321-5d08093c1052-water20vapor20and20temperature.jpg?1451528945990

Edit:

did some calculations
From a starting RH of 65%, at the difference between 71-70 °F, the RH will vary by about 2.1% RH given all other conditions remain same.

[WNYTONY]

The fans I use in my winos are in my build thread. I would recommend those fans or the Cooler Guys for fans in general, and I agree to get some air moving as Josh suggested.

https://www.cigarbum.com/forum/cigar-accessory-discussion/newair-setup-pic-heavy-7150.html

[AlanS]

I might be in trouble here folks, I found VigilantInchttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210218/04b9e799341758a203645f29621ce8fd.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210218/b2d5b280f016f6c4455e59c96d542952.jpg
Bummer all I could afford was the brochure
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[josh lucky 13]

I might be in trouble here folks, I found VigilantInchttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210218/04b9e799341758a203645f29621ce8fd.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210218/b2d5b280f016f6c4455e59c96d542952.jpg

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Back when I lived in lubbock I knew a guy whose humidor looked like a big piece of furniture. There was no exterior hardware it was locked with an electro magnet and had a remote to open it. Only saw once but that was soo cool especially 10 years ago

[AlanS]

Paging SoCal gunner

[SoCal gunner]

Paging SoCal gunnerYeah, I got an estimate from those guys... There's a reason I built it myself - lol!

[AlanS]

Yeah, I got an estimate from those guys... There's a reason I built it myself - lol!

I thought an end table would be cool but $3k buys a lot of cigars


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