Ventilation Question

[SoCal gunner]

As you probably guessed by the title, I'm thinking of doing something stoopid - punching hole(s) in the ceiling or wall in the name of smoking cigars.

Early browsing of the interwebs has a lot of useless click-bait articles on ventilation, so I'm reaching out to the BUMS for first-hand info or links to sources.

The Situation Report:
Roughly 18'x10' room with 9' ceiling. Two walls of the room are exterior and there is attic space above the ceiling. The room has one large window and has a central HVAC supply vent; there is no return vent in this room (pulls from doorway). Pretty much just going to be me in here smoking 99% of the time.

So to evacuate the smoke - I either need to go out or up. If I go out through an exterior wall, I have to deal with a stucco exterior (its like concrete plaster). If I go through the ceiling it would be easier with a laddered access in the garage. If I just go into the attic - will the smoke find its way out through gable vents, etc or will it make my whole house smell like smoke?

Regardless of the way I go to evacuate the smoke - do you think I need a fresh air intake? I know if air goes out, air must come in - the question here is it OK to just let replacement air come in under the door? I suppose I always have the ability to crack open the window.

What systems, sizing, solutions do you recommend?


PS Air purifiers - Does the discussion start and end with Rabbit Air?

[DogRockets]

You live in Southern California - what in the world do you need indoor smoking for?!?

[Emperor Zurg]

You live in Southern California - what in the world do you need indoor smoking for?!?

Perznakly

[josh lucky 13]

Tony should be your main source for info as he gets to smoke indoors. He will correct me where I am wrong as I understand his set up is he has a negative pressure in his smoking room this means air is always being pulled from under the door but this helps stop the smoke from seeping into the rest of the home. You are going to want to vent it out of the house or risk it coming back in to places you dont want so thru the roof? Or out the side and get like a dry vent cover that opens when in use and closes when not.

[Regiampiero]

No rabbit air is only good enough if it's within 2 ft of where you smoke. I use an industrial smoke eater I picked up on craigslist that is similar to what certain shops use. It eliminates the smoke, but the odor stays.

If you want to exhaust than you'll need some sort of return or you'll crack your window seals, but depending on the size of the fan that quarter of an inch space under the door will be more than adequate, not to mention it will actually keep most the smoke away from the door you'll be exiting from.

As far as fan size. Calculate the cubic feet in your room and think about how long you want the smoke to linger. You hot 1,620 CF of air to push, so 500 CFM will deal with that in a little more than 3 minutes, but if you want to clear the air in the time fir the next puff than you'll need at least a 1000 CFM fan.

Lastly, wall or ceiling? Really don't know without seeing the conditions, but the ceeling sound less than ideal especially if you ever consider using the attic as storage space. Than again a big silver cowling on the side of the house might not be a good choice either.

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[SoCal gunner]

You live in Southern California - what in the world do you need indoor smoking for?!?

Rain, Summers >100°F, Winters (well, cold to me - LOL) and Because I want to?

[SoCal gunner]

Tony should be your main source for info as he gets to smoke indoors. He will correct me where I am wrong as I understand his set up is he has a negative pressure in his smoking room this means air is always being pulled from under the door but this helps stop the smoke from seeping into the rest of the home. You are going to want to vent it out of the house or risk it coming back in to places you dont want so thru the roof? Or out the side and get like a dry vent cover that opens when in use and closes when not.

Yeah, I got to chat a bit with him on one of the VHerfs about it - He's got some kind of "in-duct" fan with a timer. Hoping he stops in for more details and where it exhausts to.

[SoCal gunner]

No rabbit air is only good enough if it's within 2 ft of where you smoke. I use an industrial smoke eater I picked up on craigslist that is similar to what certain shops use. It eliminates the smoke, but the odor stays.

If you want to exhaust than you'll need some sort of return or you'll crack your window seals, but depending on the size of the fan that quarter of an inch space under the door will be more than adequate, not to mention it will actually keep most the smoke away from the door you'll be exiting from.

As far as fan size. Calculate the cubic feet in your room and think about how long you want the smoke to linger. You hot 1,620 CF of air to push, so 500 CFM will deal with that in a little more than 3 minutes, but if you want to clear the air in the time fir the next puff than you'll need at least a 1000 CFM fan.

Lastly, wall or ceiling? Really don't know without seeing the conditions, but the ceeling sound less than ideal especially if you ever consider using the attic as storage space. Than again a big silver cowling on the side of the house might not be a good choice either.

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Is there a rule of thumb for how often the room should turn over?

Make/Model of industrial smoke eater?

[josh lucky 13]

Rain, Summers >100°F, Winters (well, cold to me - LOL) and Because I want to?

Man up I did the virtual orgy in 100 degree temps.

[Regiampiero]

Is there a rule of thumb for how often the room should turn over?

Make/Model of industrial smoke eater?It's an Emerson something, but it's not a flush unit so probably not best for inside the house mine is made for a large space and it's inside the garage.

I'd say anywhere between 1 and 5 minutes depending on how many people are smoking. There also variable speed fans that you might want to look at.

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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200513/f9a6f08b6a9ea2e2f55f3ecd77aedf97.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200513/e956e568fe3b080d255c2f581a1781e1.jpg

[Nature]

I have not installed one, yet, but have researched in preparation of.
Recommend 20-30 air changes per hour. Also may want to consider if you will have additional guests smoking in there at the same time.
At that rate, some sort of fresh air return is highly recommended, and probably necessary if you have combustible heat sources in the home (gas water heater, furnace, fireplace).
They make fresh air returns that either only turn on when the exhaust is running, or reach a pressure differential limit. You would not want 100% equalization exchange in order to maintain that negative pressure to prevent smoke odor spreading to other areas of the home.
You could get away with cracking the window, but that is probably not to IBC.
Next consideration is your comfort level and efficiency. If you are exhausting air at a decent rate with fresh air intake, you will be pulling in whatever climate is outside, whether that be cold, hot, humid or whatever. You could do a heat recovery exchanger, but they are pricey and I doubt would offset any extra energy spent for heating/cooling your home or room any time soon.

For my room I am contemplating converting, which is about 1/2 the size of what you describe, I was considering about 1450 CFM, but I was also planning on about 3-4 smokers in a more confined space. I also tend to over engineer some things.

[SoCal gunner]

Man up I did the virtual orgy in 100 degree temps.

Yes you did! You should be taking notes here for your Herf Shed!

[SoCal gunner]

I have not installed one, yet, but have researched in preparation of.
Recommend 20-30 air changes per hour. Also may want to consider if you will have additional guests smoking in there at the same time.
At that rate, some sort of fresh air return is highly recommended, and probably necessary if you have combustible heat sources in the home (gas water heater, furnace, fireplace).
They make fresh air returns that either only turn on when the exhaust is running, or reach a pressure differential limit. You would not want 100% equalization exchange in order to maintain that negative pressure to prevent smoke odor spreading to other areas of the home.
You could get away with cracking the window, but that is probably not to IBC.
Next consideration is your comfort level and efficiency. If you are exhausting air at a decent rate with fresh air intake, you will be pulling in whatever climate is outside, whether that be cold, hot, humid or whatever. You could do a heat recovery exchanger, but they are pricey and I doubt would offset any extra energy spent for heating/cooling your home or room any time soon.

For my room I am contemplating converting, which is about 1/2 the size of what you describe, I was considering about 1450 CFM, but I was also planning on about 3-4 smokers in a more confined space. I also tend to over engineer some things.Great info here. I'm really hoping to avoid the fresh air return for the reasons you described (definitely do not want a whole second HVAC system for this room either). My water heater is in the garage and furnace is in the attic - any concerns there?

As for fireplace, I'll just have to not have a fire while I'm smoking.

[Nature]

Great info here. I'm really hoping to avoid the fresh air return for the reasons you described (definitely do not want a whole second HVAC system for this room either). My water heater is in the garage and furnace is in the attic - any concerns there?

As for fireplace, I'll just have to not have a fire while I'm smoking.

In that case, I think you would be OK. They would each have their own independent combustion air source and exhaust outside of the living space. You might be OK on the fireplace if it is a direct vent with its own air source to the outside. These would have a sealed glass front and not open to the room.
Keep in mind, I am not a HVAC professional. I wouldn’t want anyone succumbing to carbon monoxide poisoning on my advice.

Make sure to post up what you do. I would love to see it and hear how it goes.

[josh lucky 13]

Yes you did! You should be taking notes here for your Herf Shed!

I got old barn tin. I plan on tining it up and a smoke stack in the roof with a fan running to exhaust out thru there. I got my plans, that one is just a bit further down.

[WNYTONY]

This is a joke, right ? We talked about this and hell yeah baller - living in the perfect weather why you wanna go inside ????? LOL

Ok, here we go

I'd estimate my room at about 12 x 20 and 8 high. Always just me smoking in here.

Yes, I did an inline fan in the attic above with 2 drops in the ceiling. Fan vents outside thru a window in the attic. I wouldn't recommend just letting it sit in the attic - think you gotta get it outside but I've not tried it. Fan pulls air under the door into the room and keeps anything from going out into the rest of the house. I've never had any problem with it pulling too much air out of the house or anything and I will say it's a little less effective if I crack a window while smoking as it pulls in direct from the window and doesn't seem to clear as fast.
Here's the fan I use
https://www.amazon.com/Fantech-PB370-2-Inline-Exhaust-CFMBathroom/dp/B003E5WAK6/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=Fantech+PB370-2+Inline+Exhaust+Fan&qid=1589434687&s=hi&sr=1-4


I have a switch that is on a timer so I can set it to run while I'm smoking and leave it running after I'm done, which is usually as I head to bed. Here's the switch I use
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Defiant-15-Amp-4-Hour-In-Wall-Push-Button-Countdown-Timer-Switch-with-Screw-Terminals-White-30469/206264395

Lastly, I use a scrubber to clean the air. I have it set on a regular plug in light timer so it comes on several times a day. I think it's for a half hour or an hour at like 5 am, late morning and late afternoon and then it comes on for about an hour and a half at around 1 am which is usually about when I'd dome with my nightly cigar - so it also runs after I go to bed. Here's the one I use
https://www.airpurifiersmoke.com/reviews/best-choice-products-sky1057-ionic-air-purifier/

I do get some residual smoke smell as I have some curtains and a carpet remnant under my desk chair but it's not too bad, doesn't get outside the room and is wife approved.

I'm sure you can spend alot more and do a better system, but it works for my situation and it's my home office / man cave so no one but me spends any time in here. Probably wouldn't work for multiple smokers or a room you want to entertain in as common area.

Some of these may not be available any more - I set this up back in 2014 after my kids were gone and not coming back. But these are the items I used - for reference purposes. YMMV

[Emperor Zurg]

I'd concentrate on exhausting thru the existing window if possible rather than poking a bunch of holes in the house. Actually if it were me, I wouldn't smoke in the house at all but I digress... I imagine it's not a sash window tho. That would make things way too easy.

[Regiampiero]

Lastly, I use a scrubber to clean the air. I have it set on a regular plug in light timer so it comes on several times a day. I think it's for a half hour or an hour at like 5 am, late morning and late afternoon and then it comes on for about an hour and a half at around 1 am which is usually about when I'd dome with my nightly cigar - so it also runs after I go to bed.

I do get some residual smoke smell as I have some curtains and a carpet remnant under my desk chair but it's not too bad, doesn't get outside the room and is wife approved.


The reason the curtains and carpet smell is because of the smoke scrubber. That's a particle ionizer which works by charging the smoke particles so they precipitates faster. The pro is that it eliminates the particles out of the air quick, the con is that the particles coming out are charged (like a static balloon) and they stick to the first surface they come in contact with, so floors, furniture, curtains and so on. Hence the lingering smell. The same happens in my garage, but it's a garage and I don't care. I think you have a pretty good setup where you shouldn't even need to run that scrubber, just my two cents.

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[Hermit]

I use a window fan.

[SoCal gunner]

I put a call into an HVAC company to discuss it and hear what they have to say. As many of you so graciously mentioned, I have the ability to smoke outside more so than others. With that said, I'm not willing to go full-bore with a separate dedicated HVAC unit, etc. I'm hoping to go with something like Tony, G, and Mark have talked about. I'm not going to build a full walk-in humidor or any of that stuff either. Just want the option to smoke indoors, if reasonable.

[SoCal gunner]

Well, not so great news...

The portion of the attic above this room does not have any gable or roof vents. My roof is clay tile, so I'd be looking at hiring a roofer to remove some tile, cut a 14"x14" hole for a dome vent and then tile/patch around it.


If I had somewhere for the air to go ,the HVAC guy recommend going with one of these fans:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200515/f4da740654a50f18d76c0b5e7f55c076.jpg
Said that's what he uses for his wife's cigarette room - lol. Check the cfms.... 1472 - right at Mark's target. Said I could either open the window or just pull from the rest of the house.

[Emperor Zurg]

Whew! Dodged that bullet. That's one more project you don't have to do. :)

Maybe you need to make some kind of box that holds about 1 cubic foot of activated carbon and then use a small blower to force air thru it. Maybe add a HEPA filter to the stack if it won't remove the smoke particulates.

Porbelm solvd. Ur welcome.

[josh lucky 13]

So up is not ideal then out is thru the side is your option

[SoCal gunner]

So up is not ideal then out is thru the side is your optionSide is out - no where for fan placement. Side could be used for air intake, but not needed.

The stigma for me is cutting a hole in the roof - just seems like no good ever comes from that, plus the escalating costs. That and it would probably be unsightly on the front facing side of the house.

[Nature]

WNYTONY I like your set up.
I agree with josh lucky 13
Sounds like it would be easier to go through a side wall, ideally in the attic, rather than through clay tile roof.

It might be easiest, although not as refined or aesthetic, to put a fan in an open window, double hung or sash like Emperor Zurg said would be best so that it doesn’t just suck air in from outside and right back out.

In the set up I am contemplating, it is a basement room with no windows. Up into the ceiling and out the sill is my plan.

[Nature]

I recently installed an exhaust fan for our cooktop. Up and out the side.
When you are getting up in the 1400 CFM, you are looking at 8” exhaust ducting or larger. Straight, smooth sided ducting provides the best flow.

I say a blower installed in the attic, ducted to the outside with an intake in your ceiling. Less noise that way too as it is remote. Some systems have the blower at the distal exhaust end.

I know it is not exact, but same concept. My cooking exhaust.

You could dress it up and build a box cover to match the house if needed, or even just painting to match will help.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200515/6634a9761ab386a19dd4b068b13a1ad2.jpg

The ducting to outside. I still need to enclose it. Run something like this in the attic.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200515/d32540c0b338a0e610113684f199bf81.jpg


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[josh lucky 13]

Side is out - no where for fan placement. Side could be used for air intake, but not needed.

The stigma for me is cutting a hole in the roof - just seems like no good ever comes from that, plus the escalating costs. That and it would probably be unsightly on the front facing side of the house.

2 options thru the ceiling pipe to outside wall to vent out. Fan can be in ceiling just above the sheetrock
Option 2 vent in wall high up vent down between the studs put the fan there then vent out the house.

[Nature]

If you have soffits, you could vent up through ceiling then exhaust down through soffit. Nothing visible on outside then.

[WNYTONY]

The reason the curtains and carpet smell is because of the smoke scrubber. That's a particle ionizer which works by charging the smoke particles so they precipitates faster. The pro is that it eliminates the particles out of the air quick, the con is that the particles coming out are charged (like a static balloon) and they stick to the first surface they come in contact with, so floors, furniture, curtains and so on. Hence the lingering smell. The same happens in my garage, but it's a garage and I don't care. I think you have a pretty good setup where you shouldn't even need to run that scrubber, just my two cents.

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That's pretty interesting. Everything I've ever read on doing a smoking room recommends leather chairs, no carpet or drapes as the smoke smell will stick to them but nothing was ever mentioned about charged particles. Most don't even mention using an ionizer - I just found it helps quite a bit for my setup.
That being said, I'd be willing to try it out for a little bit and and see how it works. Just finished my nightly and I unplugged the scrubber so I'll see what it is like with just the fan going.

SoCal gunner and Nature - 1400 cfm is alot of air to move. When I did mine I remember calculating and using info found on the interwebs and if I remember right my 360 cfm was higher than recommended for this size room. I want to say maybe 250 was the recommended and I went the next size up but that was also because I wanted to 2 drops pulling. You guys are anticipating multiple smokers so maybe that's it.

[TreySC]

I say you go the opposite direction, seal the room and just marinate in the smoke. :stogie:

[SoCal gunner]

i say you go the opposite direction, seal the room and just marinate in the smoke. :stogie:lmao

[WNYTONY]

The reason the curtains and carpet smell is because of the smoke scrubber. That's a particle ionizer which works by charging the smoke particles so they precipitates faster. The pro is that it eliminates the particles out of the air quick, the con is that the particles coming out are charged (like a static balloon) and they stick to the first surface they come in contact with, so floors, furniture, curtains and so on. Hence the lingering smell. The same happens in my garage, but it's a garage and I don't care. I think you have a pretty good setup where you shouldn't even need to run that scrubber, just my two cents.

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Have to say that I tried just running the fan G and it didn't work nearly as well without the scrubber. Ran the fan entire time while smoking and for a few hours after I was done and closed the door and hit the sack with it still running. Still a smokey smell in the am and wife did not approve. Worth a shot but sticking with my tried, trusted and wife approved process.

[SoCal gunner]

Wife is pushing me to pursue this further AND convert the closet to a humidor.

Got calls in to 2 roofers for assessments.

Going to do a rough sketch of closet for humidor and ideas.

[josh lucky 13]

Wife is pushing me to pursue this further AND convert the closet to a humidor.

Got calls in to 2 roofers for assessments.

Going to do a rough sketch of closet for humidor and ideas.

If doing a humidor that big go fancy with lighting. Small led strip lights under each shelf. Run electric to closet for humidification or fans for circulation. Etched glass door?

Just some quick thoughts

[SoCal gunner]

If doing a humidor that big go fancy with lighting. Small led strip lights under each shelf. Run electric to closet for humidification or fans for circulation. Etched glass door?

Just some quick thoughtsAwesome ideas - Ever work with any of those "cut to length" led strips? I'd need a system that all comes together to a single plug.

[josh lucky 13]

Awesome ideas - Ever work with any of those "cut to length" led strips? I'd need a system that all comes together to a single plug.

No I had an idea to use them in a wineador but then went to my current humidor. I may still get some in there eventually but not soon enough to help you out with suggestions.

[WNYTONY]

Wife is pushing me to pursue this further AND convert the closet to a humidor.

Got calls in to 2 roofers for assessments.

Going to do a rough sketch of closet for humidor and ideas.

This sounds fishy TJ. Wives don't push for such things. Something is up, something big. Run, run fast and run far :crossbones:

That being said, I'm telling my wonderful wife that the bar has officially been raised

[SoCal gunner]

One roofer flaked today, next Roofer is scheduled for Tuesday.

Second HVAC guy said that 1470 cfm was WAY too much unless I wanted a constant breeze flowing by, plus said I'd need an open window, door or intake so the fan would not burn out over time. He suggested cutting that in half or more.

[WNYTONY]

One roofer flaked today, next Roofer is scheduled for Tuesday.

Second HVAC guy said that 1470 cfm was WAY too much unless I wanted a constant breeze flowing by, plus said I'd need an open window, door or intake so the fan would not burn out over time. He suggested cutting that in half or more.

That makes some sense to me - I didn't think my calcs were that far off but when you were talking 1470 I was wondering what the hell I was smoking back then !

I have to tell you though... I was telling my wonderful wife that your wife was "pushing" for a smoking room and also a walk in humidor. She immediately said "Oh wow, she wants a Jaguar - I'm happy with my Acura" I told her the bar has been raised but I still got a firm NO.
The back story is that outside my office / smoking room we have a small room that would be the perfect size for a walk in. It's under the stairs going to our attic so not overly tall and just big enough for a smaller upright washer and dryer. When I mention the walk in and moving the laundry from the floor all the clothes are on to the basement 2 stories down, well you can imagine the curse words that get thrown in my direction.........

[SoCal gunner]

Update - Roofer showed up yesterday and suggested "O'hagin" vents - basically fake roof tiles so you don't have a big T-Top or dome sticking out of the roof.

Another HVAC guy came and took measurements, talked about the goals, looked at supply vent location, etc and is going to get back to me (I have more confidence in this guy - seemed to care, take the time to check everything out, and do some math w/product matching). Told him about the roof and he suggested adding a couple more vents just to ventilate the attic space above the room, making it easier to cool.

Roofer had a hole in his schedule and shows up tomorrow.

[SoCal gunner]

Due for an update: Roofer installed four O'Hagan vents in the attic space - 1 of which will be my exhaust port. The other 3 will serve to vent/ cool the attic space.

HVAC guy had to go retrieve his FIL from NoCal, but should have info for me on Monday.

[Nature]

Due for an update: Roofer installed four O'Hagan vents in the attic space - 1 of which will be my exhaust port. The other 3 will serve to vent/ cool the attic space.

HVAC guy had to go retrieve his FIL from NoCal, but should have info for me on Monday.

So, you are going through with it. Nice!
The vents ought to help keep your home more comfortable. Are they humidity or thermostatically controlled?

[SoCal gunner]

So, you are going through with it. Nice!
The vents ought to help keep your home more comfortable. Are they humidity or thermostatically controlled?Yeah, I know most people talk a lot of shit and never really do a project like this, but I want to make it happen. It may not be the Taj Mahal, but I want to see this through.

No, these vents are passive: one low and one high on each side of the roof peak to promote cross flow. One will be ducted to my exhaust fan system.

[SoCal gunner]

What I mean to convey is I appreciate everyone's contributions and that I'm taking them to heart and not just kicking tires or wasting anyone's time.

[WNYTONY]

What I mean to convey is I appreciate everyone's contributions and that I'm taking them to heart and not just kicking tires or wasting anyone's time.

I was hoping you weren't trying to imply that you don't talk alof of shit in general :poke:

Sounds like it's moving along pretty quickly. You are going to love it and wonder why you didn't do it sooner my friend.

[Nature]

What I mean to convey is I appreciate everyone's contributions and that I'm taking them to heart and not just kicking tires or wasting anyone's time.

Not wasting anyone’s time. Even if it was just a hypothetical dream, still enjoyable to see the discussion and everyone’s thoughts. Who knows? It may just spark a dream for someone else.

I have kicked around a lot of projects that I haven’t seen through. Some for years. Some I do get to, eventually. Some are spur of the moment.

[SoCal gunner]

So the HVAC guy showed up today unannounced and look what he had for me:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200609/9670f906311cc1e1b9ee7d2ffb2c6ca4.jpg
He didn't even ask, just said he got it "cheaper than amazon" from a supplier who said it was a good fit and he can take it back if I dont want it. So either WNYTONY knows what hes talking about or these guys don't and just said do what the other guy did - LoL

[SoCal gunner]

So now the question is "where would you install the two 6" circular exhaust grills"?

Im trying to take in the location of the HVAC supply and where I think I'll have a couple chairs and a coffee table. Take a look at my awesome drawing below (not to scale) and tell me where you think you'd put them. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200609/e6b452e63e9d6b58b280ff7757053586.jpg WNYTONY Nature josh lucky 13 and anyone else with thoughs

[Emperor Zurg]

Since your are determined to cut holes in your house, wherever the fresh air is coming in, I'd put the exhaust on the opposite side of the room for cross flow. Otherwise you'll have dead spots. Idk what HVAC is on your drawing. I figure it must be the register blowing air into the room? I tend to get fancy on things like that though so if air normally is drawn from under the door but when the HVAC kicks on it comes from that vent I'd probably have to put 3 or 4 vents in and have the 2 furthest from the door running normally but then automatically kick it over to 1 or 2 vents near the door only when the HVAC comes on. Or maybe run all of them when the HVAC comes on, depending on how much air it shoves into the room. But then I probably wouldn't ever put a smoking room in my house anyway.

[SoCal gunner]

Yes, it's the supply register. No return in this room.

[Regiampiero]

Yes, it's the supply register. No return in this room.Since the door is your return, as far away from it.

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[Emperor Zurg]

Yes, it's the supply register. No return in this room.

Well that's the thing then. When the heat (or air) comes on, the dynamics of the whole thing change. What if it's a scorching hot day and the HVAC is running the whole time or the majority of the time? Now your fresh air is coming from the vent, not from under the door. And is that going to outrun your exhaust and start pushing the air out underneath the door? And now you've got the supply air and the exhaust vents on the same side of the room if you only have the two vents over there, far from the door... so smoke will probably hang in the air over near the door. I'd probably have to put in 4 vents, I couldn't resist; 1 in each corner of the room. Then I'd use a relay to toggle back and forth between the two sets of vents - running the ones near the door when the HVAC is running and the two far from the door when it's not. I tend to get technical like this but it's sure satisfying when it all works like a charm in the end... that and I love relays...

[josh lucky 13]

So now the question is "where would you install the two 6" circular exhaust grills"?

Im trying to take in the location of the HVAC supply and where I think I'll have a couple chairs and a coffee table. Take a look at my awesome drawing below (not to scale) and tell me where you think you'd put them. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200609/e6b452e63e9d6b58b280ff7757053586.jpg WNYTONY Nature josh lucky 13 and anyone else with thoughs

Since you asked for my 2 cents here it is. First ask hvac guyhe should know best place to put it. My guess is maybe somewhere over the seat near the humidor on the right. Over or near your primary seat smoke should go mostly up. Dont want to put near the ac duct because it could render it useless. I wouldn't want it too close to door in case it struggles to keep up. And I suspect you dont want a lot of stale cigar smoke in the humidor. Also where is the kegerator?

[WNYTONY]

So now the question is "where would you install the two 6" circular exhaust grills"?

Im trying to take in the location of the HVAC supply and where I think I'll have a couple chairs and a coffee table. Take a look at my awesome drawing below (not to scale) and tell me where you think you'd put them. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200609/e6b452e63e9d6b58b280ff7757053586.jpg WNYTONY Nature josh lucky 13 and anyone else with thoughs

That's pretty funny TJ, although you shouldn't sound so shocked that he stole my setup. Ha, of course he would beat Amazon going the wholesale route... he just had to get in that dig didn't he. I already like this guy.

Don't know if it's the same cfm as my 360 and I'm not an HVAC guru or anything but I'll give me you info so my new buddy can use it to bill you :lol:

I'll say in my room I put them on the middle line running the longer measurement and I spread them equi-distant along that line - a snake eyes pattern on dice. In your diagram that would roughly put them between the chairs and table and on the outside corners of the 2 chairs. I'll say that it looks fine visually just splitting the distances but I also liked it because it put one above me and the other halfway between me and to door and that was what I felt would work the best to keep it from exiting the room.

Now the difference here between yours and my setup is with mine that puts one pretty much directly over my head and the other about half way between me and the door. Yours in that configuration would both roughly be right above your chairs.

I will also tell you that with my 360 cfm it does not grab the smoke and funnel it right up thru the grate. It circulates the air and pulls it out but I don't exhale and it all runs up like a tornado into the grate or anything. If you've amped the cfm maybe yours will be different.

I also have a floor grate for my HVAC and do have a cold air return I have shut off. It's forced air heat, but we rarely need to run air here in NY. I don't have a problem with the incoming HVAC out running the exhaust - it is still pulling air under the door even when the heat is running, just not quite as much. In the summer I will use a window fan and/or a window A/C unit but when I'm smoking I will run it on the lower setting so it doesn't outrun the exhaust. Still, not a problem.

Just looking at your room setup and not being an HVAC guru - I'd still look to put one over the chairs and the other halfway between the chairs and the door. But if that will work or not is I guess dependent on the cfm of the exhaust, how powerful your HVAC is pumping it in and whether or not you close off the cold air return. You'll have to consult the expert on that.

In the end they're just holes in the ceiling - you can always relocate them and patch up the old ones if you find out it's not effective :popcorn:

[WNYTONY]

You know SoCal gunner - I can always pick up the camera and point it up when we're on vherf if you don't understand the words coming outta my keyboard

[Nature]

So now the question is "where would you install the two 6" circular exhaust grills"?

Im trying to take in the location of the HVAC supply and where I think I'll have a couple chairs and a coffee table. Take a look at my awesome drawing below (not to scale) and tell me where you think you'd put them. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200609/e6b452e63e9d6b58b280ff7757053586.jpg WNYTONY Nature josh lucky 13 and anyone else with thoughs

I would place them near the point of origin, right over or just behind the chairs. The sooner the smoke is evacuated and the shortest distance, the better. Also, this seems to be between both potential sources of air entering the room; the HVAC or the door. This should result in some cross flow either way. Secondarily, I would consider wherever it fits easiest without major structure modification.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200609/d0d27fa8a7ee61a01a60be308f44bbf0.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Nature]

WNYTONY has good ideas, and he’s proven it works.

Here is another option:
Centered in the room halfway between each potential air source.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200609/bc20b7aef07a576b2b0048cc8d4ece36.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Regiampiero]

I would place them near the point of origin, right over or just behind the chairs. The sooner the smoke is evacuated and the shortest distance, the better. Also, this seems to be between both potential sources of air entering the room; the HVAC or the door. This should result in some cross flow either way. Secondarily, I would consider wherever it fits easiest without major structure modification.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200609/d0d27fa8a7ee61a01a60be308f44bbf0.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkDidn't even see the hvac location. Yes this is what would be best.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[SoCal gunner]

Someone asked where the HVAC guy suggested putting them... his thoughts were in opposite corners like this. Saying the HVAC supply register blows down and across as Nature showed (much better artist than I am BTW).


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200609/9745cc609244c3c5cb60abf2e0df6136.jpg

[SoCal gunner]

That's pretty funny TJ, although you shouldn't sound so shocked that he stole my setup. Ha, of course he would beat Amazon going the wholesale route... he just had to get in that dig didn't he. I already like this guy.

Don't know if it's the same cfm as my 360 and I'm not an HVAC guru or anything but I'll give me you info so my new buddy can use it to bill you [emoji38]

I'll say in my room I put them on the middle line running the longer measurement and I spread them equi-distant along that line - a snake eyes pattern on dice. In your diagram that would roughly put them between the chairs and table and on the outside corners of the 2 chairs. I'll say that it looks fine visually just splitting the distances but I also liked it because it put one above me and the other halfway between me and to door and that was what I felt would work the best to keep it from exiting the room.

Now the difference here between yours and my setup is with mine that puts one pretty much directly over my head and the other about half way between me and the door. Yours in that configuration would both roughly be right above your chairs.

I will also tell you that with my 360 cfm it does not grab the smoke and funnel it right up thru the grate. It circulates the air and pulls it out but I don't exhale and it all runs up like a tornado into the grate or anything. If you've amped the cfm maybe yours will be different.

I also have a floor grate for my HVAC and do have a cold air return I have shut off. It's forced air heat, but we rarely need to run air here in NY. I don't have a problem with the incoming HVAC out running the exhaust - it is still pulling air under the door even when the heat is running, just not quite as much. In the summer I will use a window fan and/or a window A/C unit but when I'm smoking I will run it on the lower setting so it doesn't outrun the exhaust. Still, not a problem.

Just looking at your room setup and not being an HVAC guru - I'd still look to put one over the chairs and the other halfway between the chairs and the door. But if that will work or not is I guess dependent on the cfm of the exhaust, how powerful your HVAC is pumping it in and whether or not you close off the cold air return. You'll have to consult the expert on that.

In the end they're just holes in the ceiling - you can always relocate them and patch up the old ones if you find out it's not effective :popcorn:I can't help but like the guy, he cracks me up. He was supposed to go discuss it with a supplier and get back to me. He disappears for a week (told me he'd be gone for a long weekend), then just shows up with product inhand. (Literally called and asked if I was home- I'm thinking he needs to see something and will swing by - But he says "Good, I'm in the driveway" - lol). Now he did say I didn't have to keep it, but said his supplier guy agreed, followed by the Amazon line - lol.

Tony, I want to say its 370 cfm? That should turn the room over in under 4 minutes and 99% of the time its just going to be me having a cigar in there.

[WNYTONY]

I can't help but like the guy, he cracks me up. He was supposed to go discuss it with a supplier and get back to me. He disappears for a week (told me he'd be gone for a long weekend), then just shows up with product inhand. (Literally called and asked if I was home- I'm thinking he needs to see something and will swing by - But he says "Good, I'm in the driveway" - lol). Now he did say I didn't have to keep it, but said his supplier guy agreed, followed by the Amazon line - lol.

Tony, I want to say its 370 cfm? That should turn the room over in under 4 minutes and 99% of the time its just going to be me having a cigar in there.So right about the same size as what I have and I did that math too. I just wanted to tell you that mine doesn't suck the smoke right outta my mouth or anything and you're probably going to immediately be unimpressed and wishing you went bigger. I wanted to go big enough to be effective and not pull the hat off my head but like I said I still leave it run some afterwards and supplement with a scrubber. Just don't want you thinking this will be magic or anything - smoke and smell do take a bit to clear.

[SoCal gunner]

So right about the same size as what I have and I did that math too. I just wanted to tell you that mine doesn't suck the smoke right outta my mouth or anything and you're probably going to immediately be unimpressed and wishing you went bigger. I wanted to go big enough to be effective and not pull the hat off my head but like I said I still leave it run some afterwards and supplement with a scrubber. Just don't want you thinking this will be magic or anything - smoke and smell do take a bit to clear.Totally understood and appreciated.

I don't think there is a "right" answer; its more of a personal preference rooted to the size of the room and number of smokers.

[WNYTONY]

Totally understood and appreciated.

I don't think there is a "right" answer; its more of a personal preference rooted to the size of the room and number of smokers.Can't wait to see how it turns out - especially that walk in !

[SoCal gunner]

Figured I owe an update -

The dual 370cfm fantech is installed in the configuration shown below
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200717/c4cdba46fed4bb66dce45ce52f22a606.jpg

It's quiet, but not "silent". You really dont hear fan-noise, but rather a hollow sound most likely from the metal box enclosure the fan grilles mount into. Thats if you're sitting in silence listening for it. Just having a conversation puts in the background. Watching TV will be no problem.

Like Tony said before, this doesnt cause a vortex pulling all your smoke out instantly. It keeps things steady while I smoke and evacuates the room on the timer afterwards. For Nature scenario of 4 guys herfing, it wouldn't stand a chance. But for my solo use intent, it'll work.

Flooring installed, lighting installed, fans installed.

Still need to furnish it and kick around extras, but right now a lawn chair works - lol

[WNYTONY]

Figured I owe an update -

The dual 370cfm fantech is installed in the configuration shown below
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200717/c4cdba46fed4bb66dce45ce52f22a606.jpg

It's quiet, but not "silent". You really dont hear fan-noise, but rather a hollow sound most likely from the metal box enclosure the fan grilles mount into. Thats if you're sitting in silence listening for it. Just having a conversation puts in the background. Watching TV will be no problem.

Like Tony said before, this doesnt cause a vortex pulling all your smoke out instantly. It keeps things steady while I smoke and evacuates the room on the timer afterwards. For Nature scenario of 4 guys herfing, it wouldn't stand a chance. But for my solo use intent, it'll work.

Flooring installed, lighting installed, fans installed.

Still need to furnish it and kick around extras, but right now a lawn chair works - lol

Exactly. For 1 or 2 guys it will keep up but would be a struggle with 4. Not a problem for me as I only ever smoke alone in here.
I can barley hear mine running with the TV off, not at all with the TV on.

That lawn chair needs to be replaced though - not befitting of baller status !
Thanks for the update - we're going to need some picture when the new leather comes in ....

[Emperor Zurg]

Still need to furnish it and kick around extras, but right now a lawn chair works - lol

Perfect! Add a couple upside-down 5 gallon buckets and a banana crate and you're good to go!
Scrounge up a hunk of 2x12 and a couple cinder blocks and you could have a coffee table too :p

[SoCal gunner]

Perfect! Add a couple upside-down 5 gallon buckets and a banana crate and you're good to go!
Scrounge up a hunk of 2x12 and a couple cinder blocks and you could have a coffee table too :pNaw man, you gotta get one of those giant wooden wire reels!

[allusred]

Naw man, you gotta get one of those giant wooden wire reels!


Lil bit of History.

Those large wire reels were ships sailed by grade school kids (boys only) of course on the Oceans in the meadowlands of North jersey. Epic battles waged by rival pirate ships.The water was kinda brownish and smelled a bit funny.The Oceans were Located near a factory. May have been some run off from the plastic production. Polution hadn't been invented back then. Anyway none of the boys turned blue or orange.

[josh lucky 13]

Lil bit of History.

Those large wire reels were ships sailed by grade school kids (boys only) of course on the Oceans in the meadowlands of North jersey. Epic battles waged by rival pirate ships.The water was kinda brownish and smelled a bit funny.The Oceans were Located near a factory. May have been some run off from the plastic production. Polution hadn't been invented back then. Anyway none of the boys turned blue or orange.

Are you sure that's not how umpa loompas were made?

[allusred]

Are you sure that's not how umpa loompas were made?

No no ill effects noted even after 70-72 Years.
I think it's proof of the old Du Pont slogan "Better living through chemistry.'

"